[WM] King Tiger

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[ick312]

hi,

my opinion is that accuracy vs infantry is quite ok. but i think that the frontal armour should be improved.
why?
well, KT is slow and it binds a lot of pop (23 at least cause KT + Pak)=> change frontal armour so that nothing penetrates on long range. So fits the KT more into the role of a rolling bunker which comes closer and closer, while other troops can approach behind it.
dont get me wrong medium range and short range should penetrate (that can stay like it is) but not long range.

the current KT is just to slow and fragile (it can be easily taken out by arty, or m10 rush) for so much pop.

also i think that bottom t4 is not enough for all tanks, i suggest to move the gain of stug mg to that t4.

[Spartan_Marine88]

the current KT is just to slow and fragile (it can be easily taken out by arty, or m10 rush) for so much pop.

If your KT got taken out by a m10 your a moron.

[DarkSoldierX]

I must admit M10s and arty dont do too much to the KT, its the fireflys and AP atgs that are a threat.

[3rdCondor]

binomial distributions

[8thRifleRegiment]

Formula is, where:
N = squad size
x = number of squad members splashed
y = basic accuracy of gun vs target
z=basic multiplier that is given by Pascal's triangle (in this case we refer to the line 1 6 15 20 15 6 1) :

z*(y^x)*(1-y)^(N-x)

Simplified for the KT :

z*(0.4^x)*(0.6)^(6-x)

[CrazyWR]

it just needs a slight increase in accuracy like the stuhs and he shermans got so that it isn't hitting targets and watching them sit there and take it

[EliteGren]

That wasn't a slight accuracy increase lol. It was literally like 50%

[Mysthalin]

That wasn't a slight accuracy increase lol. It was literally like 50%

33%

[Shabtajus]

lol

[AmPM]

33%

Unless the original accuracy was 66% or so and it got boosted to 100%, then it's nearly 50% increase.

[hans]

Unless the original accuracy was 66% or so and it got boosted to 100%, then it's nearly 50% increase.

wut? 150 % acc inrease over time?

[Mysthalin]

Unless the original accuracy was 66% or so and it got boosted to 100%, then it's nearly 50% increase.

Original accuracy was 0.75. Is now 1.0. 1/0.75=1.33

33% boost.

[AmPM]

Correct.

[Smokaz]

How about buffing the AI accuracy of KT just a bit then, so that you feel that you have more AI than a sherman/p4 on it, for all that pop and fuel...

[pqumsieh]

Tiger vs King Tiger

Ready Aim time
- 1.5 vs 0.5

Area Effect
- Radius: 5.3 vs 4
- Damage: 0.2/0.35/1 vs 0.3/0.5/1
- Distance: 5.3/2/0.5 vs 4/2/0.25
- Suppression: 0/0/0 vs 0.1/0.15/0.2

Damage
- 137.5 vs 165

Range
- 40 vs 45

Reload
- 6 vs 4.5-5.5

Suppression
- 0/0/0 vs 0.001/0.001/0.001

Target Table
- Infantry Accuracy: 0.75 vs 0.4

Notes:

Medium Splash Damage
- 48.125 vs 82.5

In fact, the King Tiger only has two draw backs in comparison to the Tiger. Its accuracy and its mobility. If we increased the accuracy of the King Tiger to the level of the Tiger you would have a death machine on wheels. Not only do you have 5 more range, but you deal enough damage at medium range to destroy any ally infantry.

I tried giving the King Tiger the same accuracy as the Tiger, the results made the KT a beast like no other. As I said in a previous post, if you want to increase its accuracy you must reduce its splash damage. You can't have something as tough as the KT which is able to effective counter both armour and infantry. Looking at the bigger picture, what happens if 2 KT's are fielded? As it stands, this unit is a serious threat to the games balance. If anything is done, it must be play tested significantly.

For that reason, I do not suggest any modifications to this vehicle unless you have personally play tested it. Play testing in your own sandbox won't give you the whole picture, but it sure as hell beats a theory crafted argument.

[pqumsieh]

What I am saying is this, if you want to increase the accuracy of the KT to a point where it becomes meaningful, then you have to increase it by a larger amount. Doing so, will break the unit. Hence, I suggest we look at other methods of improving the unit, such as its mobility.

I've already explained it enough times, the KT is way too powerful in its current state to have its accuracy modified. If we did want to modify it, we would have to make some other significant changes to its guns performance, namely with regard to its splash.

[Tymathee]

me and pq agree? wtf?

[Mysthalin]

It's mobility is fine - a tank so powerful and buffed up with health should be slow. Increasing the infantry accuracy to 0.75 is something i only warrant if it's repair kit is changed to be similar to the Tank Hunters T4 one (with a price increase to 250 mu), and the price of the tank itself is increased to 800 FU 1000-1200 MP. Then you can remove the 1 KT per coy limitation (since the only way to get 2 KTs would be literally to forgo sitting in a muni sector and pouring EVERY LAST BIT OF FUEL into your 2 KTs. Not even enough for a scouting bike left) - and the muni + MP costs would actually sting as well.

[AmPM]

I don't really like the idea of making it faster either, takes away from it's feel.

The other option would be reducing cost/pop and/or allowing 2 per company =)

[pqumsieh]

I just copy/pasted this from another thread. I just wanted to point out a few things; we have discussed increasing its accuracy but after play testing a number of accuracy changes I concluded that was not a viable option. The KT has a much better gun than the Tiger, something I think people can quite easily forget.