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State of Balance
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Topic: State of Balance (Read 46835 times)
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PonySlaystation
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #40 on:
August 26, 2012, 01:15:17 am »
Quote from: smurfORnot on August 26, 2012, 12:54:05 am
so what goes pufff from T2? assault nades? precision strike?
Unlocks can have multiple things. Nothing has to go puff.
Logged
Sharks are not monsters Henley, they are cute, cuddly and misunderstood. They love humans. sometimes they love TOO much. They love people so much that sometimes their kisses separate people into two flailing pieces which are consumed by other sharks in a frenzy of peace and joy.
Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #41 on:
August 26, 2012, 04:06:03 am »
Oh, how horrible, stormtroopers are going to be a fundamentally T3 unlock. That totally addresses the fact they have 2.5 times more pop-efficient AT capacity than the next best infantry AT upgrade, while also being cheaper for firepower.
Logged
smurfORnot
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4715
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #42 on:
August 26, 2012, 05:05:59 am »
one reason less to pick Tiger as T3
Logged
NightRain
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #43 on:
August 26, 2012, 05:59:28 am »
In state of balance.
Upgun Hotchkiss is cheaper than Hotchkiss by definition of 10 fuel. Should it be otherway around?
Logged
Quote from: Unkn0wn on June 05, 2011, 04:01:40 am
Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
TheVolskinator
Administrator / Lead Developer
Posts: 3012
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #44 on:
August 26, 2012, 09:02:31 am »
MMMMk. Pick Blitz, get a Tiger off the bat.
+1.
Logged
Quote from: tank130
I want to ensure we have a 100% decision on the process before we do the wipe.
If not, then I wipe, then someone gets something they shouldn't, then it gets abused, then the shit hits the fan and then I ban shab.
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pqumsieh
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2367
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #45 on:
August 26, 2012, 10:56:50 am »
I'll take a look at the upgun hotchkiss
Logged
Common sense is not so common after all.
RikiRude
Donator
Posts: 4376
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #46 on:
August 26, 2012, 08:05:24 pm »
Quote from: pqumsieh on August 25, 2012, 11:45:20 pm
Double shreks will require a T2 unlock now. Elite armor has also been removed from storm troopers.
You should give us more information, and this is coming from someone who is anti-double schreck storms.
This is a classic example of EIRR over nerfing. No one has said they have any problems with elite armor STs, not mp44, not normal, not single shcreck. We have a problem with double schreck storms, and the elite armor just adds to it.
So instead of nerfing an entire unit, you guys should be nerfing the one part of the unit which is a problem.
Just my 2 cents.
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Quote from: Killer344
Killer344: "Repent: sory no joke i just had savage diorea"
Quote from: Malgoroth on October 10, 2011, 05:03:49 pm
... or a fat ass cock sucking churchill being stupid
AmPM
Community Mapper
Posts: 7978
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #47 on:
August 26, 2012, 08:40:34 pm »
Quote from: RikiRude on August 26, 2012, 08:05:24 pm
You should give us more information, and this is coming from someone who is anti-double schreck storms.
This is a classic example of EIRR over nerfing. No one has said they have any problems with elite armor STs, not mp44, not normal, not single shcreck. We have a problem with double schreck storms, and the elite armor just adds to it.
So instead of nerfing an entire unit, you guys should be nerfing the one part of the unit which is a problem.
Just my 2 cents.
Thruth
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Spartan_Marine88
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4838
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #48 on:
August 26, 2012, 08:44:25 pm »
Quote from: NightRain on August 26, 2012, 05:59:28 am
In state of balance.
Upgun Hotchkiss is cheaper than Hotchkiss by definition of 10 fuel. Should it be otherway around?
Upgun hotchkiss can really only deal with tanks effectively, while the regular can pick off infantry, kill light vehicles and be an excellent flanker against tanks providing decent damage from rear shots if its being distracted making combats end quicker.
Logged
Quote from: Sachaztan on March 24, 2013, 03:49:43 pm
Yes that's me, the special snowflake.
pqumsieh
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2367
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #49 on:
August 26, 2012, 09:13:52 pm »
Think I gave enough information. You now have to unlock the top middle T2 to purchase double shreks and storm tactics won't grant storm troopers elite armor. The elite armor on storm troopers was causing a lot of knock off issues that exaggerated the problems we were having with double shreks. If this solution does not work then we will have to look at other more drastic options.
Logged
NightRain
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #50 on:
August 26, 2012, 10:35:07 pm »
Is it a GOOD thing:
That Majority of Panzer Elite halftrack still die to small arms fire, things such as 50mm HT and Light AT HT?
Logged
Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #51 on:
August 27, 2012, 01:41:39 am »
If I told you once, I told you a thousand times PQ. It's not the elite armour storms that were the issue - it's the double-shreks. The Elite Armour was just a very barely relevant cherry on the shit sundae when taking on the ordeal of dealing with double-shrek stormtroopers.
Yet again - the issue lies in the fact they are 2.5 times more pop/damage efficient than the next best Hand-Held AT - and in terms of damage-to-price, they are 50% more efficient than the afore-mentioned Hand-Held AT (5 RR squads will set you back 900 MU - more than the apparently unreasonably overpriced 610 MU of health-kit wielding 2 squads of double-shreks.)
I am not entirely sure how these very simple truths just keep flying over your head PQ. You told me about that change you want to give to double-shreks ages ago - and I told you there and then why that change will do nothing to solve the issue. If you have some kind of master insight as to how making double-shrek storms essentially a T3 unlock will solve the fact they are just so much BETTER than anything else that can be fielded for the same price and popcap - I'd love to hear it. If you're only clinging onto changing the storms in the half-assed way you outlined because it's your idea, and it seems like your precious little baby - then maybe you should not be balance lead.
Logged
Demon767
Warmap Betatester
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6190
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #52 on:
August 27, 2012, 02:09:46 am »
oh shh Myst.
Logged
Generalleutnant of The Reichs Wolves
Nevergetsputonlistguy767
TheVolskinator
Administrator / Lead Developer
Posts: 3012
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #53 on:
August 27, 2012, 05:33:49 am »
And Myst makes a grab for power. bum bum bummmmmmmm
Logged
Mysthalin
Tired King of Stats
Posts: 9028
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #54 on:
August 27, 2012, 06:18:12 am »
Quote from: TheVolskinator on August 27, 2012, 05:33:49 am
And Myst makes a grab for power. bum bum bummmmmmmm
*Yawn* Why would I want to have a stressful extra job I get paid nothing for?
Logged
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #55 on:
August 27, 2012, 06:23:24 am »
Quote from: pqumsieh on August 26, 2012, 09:13:52 pm
....
If this solution does not work then we will have to look at other more drastic options.
Quote from: Mysthalin on August 27, 2012, 01:41:39 am
I told you once, I told you a thousand times PQ. It's not the elite armour storms that were the issue - it's the double-shreks. The Elite Armour was just a very barely relevant cherry on the shit sundae when taking on the ordeal of dealing with double-shrek stormtroopers.
and if you bothered to read, he said if it didn't work they'd look at other options. We're still in beta stage, they can test things all they want but they wont know how it works until it hits the community.
things get proposed and discussed by more than one person, pq isn't the end all be all w hen a change is decided.
READ!
eirr is in "beta." really alpha but they call it a beta, things will change.
Logged
Quote from: nikomas on October 04, 2012, 09:26:33 pm
"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"
Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
Sachaztan
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2667
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #56 on:
August 27, 2012, 06:45:00 am »
Wait this really confuses me.
It's not ok for AVRE to instagib axis squads, but it's perfectly fine for stuhs to instagib allied squads? Am I missing something here?
Logged
Quote from: Tymathee on March 01, 2012, 03:10:58 pm
Demon posession is real and it's not funny, it's the creepiest thing you will ever experience.
Quote from: Jodomar on October 18, 2012, 09:45:42 am
I would also like to add I watch fox news everyday all day and will continue to watch it while being proud of that fact. I'm sure you enjoy your communist news network just as much.
Tymathee
Donator
Posts: 9741
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #57 on:
August 27, 2012, 08:14:02 am »
Quote from: Sachaztan on August 27, 2012, 06:45:00 am
Wait this really confuses me.
It's not ok for AVRE to instagib axis squads, but it's perfectly fine for stuhs to instagib allied squads? Am I missing something here?
and they also get a powerful hmg and skirts, upping survivability.
Logged
PonySlaystation
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #58 on:
August 27, 2012, 08:20:59 am »
Quote from: Mysthalin on August 27, 2012, 01:41:39 am
Yet again - the issue lies in the fact they are 2.5 times more pop/damage efficient than the next best Hand-Held AT - and in terms of damage-to-price, they are 50% more efficient than the afore-mentioned Hand-Held AT (5 RR squads will set you back 900 MU - more than the apparently unreasonably overpriced 610 MU of health-kit wielding 2 squads of double-shreks.
Not a very good comparison. The RRs are superior in other areas, just because they do less damage does not necessarily make them worse. RRs have much higher accuracy for example.
Stormtroopers have been the same for 4 years, and now they're suddenly super overpowered? And you're the only one except for super allied fanboys that claims this? You really seem to have some nemesis complex with these panzerschrecks and want them nerfed to uselessness. I can't help but to claim bias when you're known to favor allied light vehicles, which is what the stormtroopers are known to be a hard counter for, more than any other vehicle.
The truth is that Elite Armor makes Stormtrooper panzerschrecks a lot more effective since it boosts their hit and run strategy.
Logged
pqumsieh
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2367
Re: State of Balance
«
Reply #59 on:
August 27, 2012, 10:08:13 am »
We are trying other options first before we remove double panzer shrieks. What we are trying to do with the upcoming changes is increase the risk vs reward for using them. You now pay two additional points to unlock double shreks and don't gain access to elite armor. No matter how you want to spin it, elite armor significantly increases the cost effectiveness of the squad.
Regarding you point on pop-combat effectiveness Myst, the option to increase the squads pop by 1 is still on tr table. It's a bit of a tricky issue, things aren't set in stone though so if this doesn't work then we will try other options.
Just try not to get your panties all in a bundle, k Myst :p
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