State of Balance

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[PonySlaystation]

so what goes pufff from T2? assault nades?  precision strike?

Unlocks can have multiple things. Nothing has to go puff.

[Mysthalin]

Oh, how horrible, stormtroopers are going to be a fundamentally T3 unlock. That totally addresses the fact they have 2.5 times more pop-efficient AT capacity than the next best infantry AT upgrade, while also being cheaper for firepower.

[smurfORnot]

one reason less to pick Tiger as T3 

[NightRain]

In state of balance.

Upgun Hotchkiss is cheaper than Hotchkiss by definition of 10 fuel. Should it be otherway around?

[TheVolskinator]

MMMMk. Pick Blitz, get a Tiger off the bat.

+1.

[pqumsieh]

I'll take a look at the upgun hotchkiss

[RikiRude]

Double shreks will require a T2 unlock now. Elite armor has also been removed from storm troopers.

You should give us more information, and this is coming from someone who is anti-double schreck storms.

This is a classic example of EIRR over nerfing. No one has said they have any problems with elite armor STs, not mp44, not normal, not single shcreck. We have a problem with double schreck storms, and the elite armor just adds to it.

So instead of nerfing an entire unit, you guys should be nerfing the one part of the unit which is a problem.

Just my 2 cents.

[AmPM]

You should give us more information, and this is coming from someone who is anti-double schreck storms.

This is a classic example of EIRR over nerfing. No one has said they have any problems with elite armor STs, not mp44, not normal, not single shcreck. We have a problem with double schreck storms, and the elite armor just adds to it.

So instead of nerfing an entire unit, you guys should be nerfing the one part of the unit which is a problem.

Just my 2 cents.

Thruth

[Spartan_Marine88]

In state of balance.

Upgun Hotchkiss is cheaper than Hotchkiss by definition of 10 fuel. Should it be otherway around?

Upgun hotchkiss can really only deal with tanks effectively, while the regular can pick off infantry, kill light vehicles and be an excellent flanker against tanks providing decent damage from rear shots if its being distracted making combats end quicker.

[pqumsieh]

Think I gave enough information. You now have to unlock the top middle T2 to purchase double shreks and storm tactics won't grant storm troopers elite armor. The elite armor on storm troopers was causing a lot of knock off issues that exaggerated the problems we were having with double shreks. If this solution does not work then we will have to look at other more drastic options.

[NightRain]

Is it a GOOD thing:

That Majority of Panzer Elite halftrack still die to small arms fire, things such as 50mm HT and Light AT HT?

[Mysthalin]

If I told you once, I told you a thousand times PQ. It's not the elite armour storms that were the issue - it's the double-shreks. The Elite Armour was just a very barely relevant cherry on the shit sundae when taking on the ordeal of dealing with double-shrek stormtroopers.

Yet again - the issue lies in the fact they are 2.5 times more pop/damage efficient than the next best Hand-Held AT - and in terms of damage-to-price, they are 50% more efficient than the afore-mentioned Hand-Held AT (5 RR squads will set you back 900 MU - more than the apparently unreasonably overpriced 610 MU of health-kit wielding 2 squads of double-shreks.)

I am not entirely sure how these very simple truths just keep flying over your head PQ. You told me about that change you want to give to double-shreks ages ago - and I told you there and then why that change will do nothing to solve the issue. If you have some kind of master insight as to how making double-shrek storms essentially a T3 unlock will solve the fact they are just so much BETTER than anything else that can be fielded for the same price and popcap - I'd love to hear it. If you're only clinging onto changing the storms in the half-assed way you outlined because it's your idea, and it seems like your precious little baby - then maybe you should not be balance lead.

[Demon767]

oh shh Myst.

[TheVolskinator]

And Myst makes a grab for power. bum bum bummmmmmmm

[Mysthalin]

And Myst makes a grab for power. bum bum bummmmmmmm

*Yawn* Why would I want to have a stressful extra job I get paid nothing for?

[Tymathee]

....If this solution does not work then we will have to look at other more drastic options.

I told you once, I told you a thousand times PQ. It's not the elite armour storms that were the issue - it's the double-shreks. The Elite Armour was just a very barely relevant cherry on the shit sundae when taking on the ordeal of dealing with double-shrek stormtroopers.

and if you bothered to read, he said if it didn't work they'd look at other options. We're still in beta stage, they can test things all they want but they wont know how it works until it hits the community.

things get proposed and discussed by more than one person, pq isn't the end all be all w hen a change is decided.

READ!

eirr is in "beta." really alpha but they call it a beta, things will change.

[Sachaztan]

Wait this really confuses me.

It's not ok for AVRE to instagib axis squads, but it's perfectly fine for stuhs to instagib allied squads? Am I missing something here?

[Tymathee]

Wait this really confuses me.

It's not ok for AVRE to instagib axis squads, but it's perfectly fine for stuhs to instagib allied squads? Am I missing something here?

and they also get a powerful hmg and skirts, upping survivability.

[PonySlaystation]

Yet again - the issue lies in the fact they are 2.5 times more pop/damage efficient than the next best Hand-Held AT - and in terms of damage-to-price, they are 50% more efficient than the afore-mentioned Hand-Held AT (5 RR squads will set you back 900 MU - more than the apparently unreasonably overpriced 610 MU of health-kit wielding 2 squads of double-shreks.

Not a very good comparison. The RRs are superior in other areas, just because they do less damage does not necessarily make them worse. RRs have much higher accuracy for example.

Stormtroopers have been the same for 4 years, and now they're suddenly super overpowered? And you're the only one except for super allied fanboys that claims this? You really seem to have some nemesis complex with these panzerschrecks and want them nerfed to uselessness. I can't help but to claim bias when you're known to favor allied light vehicles, which is what the stormtroopers are known to be a hard counter for, more than any other vehicle.

The truth is that Elite Armor makes Stormtrooper panzerschrecks a lot more effective since it boosts their hit and run strategy.

[pqumsieh]

We are trying other options first before we remove double panzer shrieks. What we are trying to do with the upcoming changes is increase the risk vs reward for using them. You now pay two additional points to unlock double shreks and don't gain access to elite armor. No matter how you want to spin it, elite armor significantly increases the cost effectiveness of the squad.

Regarding you point on pop-combat effectiveness Myst, the option to increase the squads pop by 1 is still on tr table. It's a bit of a tricky issue, things aren't set in stone though so if this doesn't work then we will try other options.

Just try not to get your panties all in a bundle, k Myst :p