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Author Topic: State of Balance  (Read 44234 times)
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pqumsieh Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2367


« on: August 24, 2012, 09:14:23 pm »

First off, I'd like to address some concerns that have been brought up regarding PE. We are currently doing a factional review of PE; however, please do not expect major gameplay/tactic changes with this faction. We are focusing on targeting a few key issues and addressing them with small but meaningful changes.

One of our main concerns is to eleviate the issue of ATG creeping for PE.

Regarding the Puma, I think everyone needs to keep in mind that the Puma received two major buff to its overall DPS last patch. We increased its coaxial MG's DPS by about 400% as well as increased its moving accuracy from 0.5 to 0.75. We determined that only one of these buffs was necessary, hence we decided to revert the moving accuracy buff. You still retain your potential max DPS; but lose the additional versatility and survivability that the moving accuracy offered. Additionally, the Puma is 6 pop whereas other LV's are 8; so its combat effectiveness and overall versatility needs to be slightly lower than other LV's classed above it. The other option would be to move the Puma up a class and price it at 8 pop, but the design team wants the Puma to remain in its current class for gameplay reasons.

Regarding the AVRE, it is very possible that in the next patch some of the changes will be reverted. We can only test things in a very limited environment, getting community feedback is a crucial step in the balance process. Using that feedback, we review every change and amend if needed.

Regarding the splash damage nerfs to the AVRE; overall, everyone needs to appreciate that we made this unit significantly better. Leaving the damage modifiers as they were would result in whole squads being destroyed in a number of scenarios. Who wants to see their vet 2 or 3 squad destroyed in one blow? Given that this mod is heavily based on persistency, we crafted the splash damage to leave some members alive in most situations but at red health. This leaves them extremely vulnerable to follow up fire but still gives them a chance to retreat. Either way, they will become combat ineffective for at least the next 30 seconds; assuming the player uses a med kit or other form of healing. If they don't, there squad won't last too long in any combat situation.

We test these changes before we put them in, I tested the AVRE with and without modifying its splash damage. I already feel this will become a very dominant unit in the current meta-game with the changes we made, no need to risk breaking it even further until we see what these changes do in the current environment. I highly expect to revert or modify some of the changes listed in the OP.

Regarding HE rounds; they are now standardized between all units using them. The Cromwell 95mm did not receive any changes because it already has similar stats.

For whatever reason I can't post in the news and informations section, so after each patch I will try and provide some details regarding the changes. If you have any questions I will try to answer them to the best of my ability.

PQ

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Common sense is not so common after all.
Tymathee Offline
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Posts: 9741



« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2012, 10:30:30 pm »

Bravo
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"I want proof!"
"I have proof!"
"Whatever, I'm still right"

Dafuq man, don't ask for proof if you'll refuse it if it's not in your favor, logic fallacy for the bloody win.
terrapinsrock Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1009



« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2012, 11:02:10 pm »

Good to hear   Grin
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Bit hard when its flaunted infront of you as a  broken reward piece of ass you'll never get to shag with.
Current Vets:
 

taco355 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 173


« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2012, 11:17:27 pm »

I'm looking forward to what you have in store for the Panzer Elite.
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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2012, 02:24:57 am »

*Yawn* - Check StuH base damage versus covered units and Sherman/StuHmwell damage versus covered units. The StuH will still have the capacity to one-hit-kill US/Brit men (barring a few special cases) in cover. Sherman/StuHmwell - will have zero chance of doing that to grenadiers in cover.

Which is why I said that the change was poorly done.


Not to mention that other, far more pressing matters should have been attended to, yet fucking about with completely irrelevant crap like panzerfausts was done. The lolwat change to Panthers becoming more affordable pool-wise when all you could see was Panthers anyway is also stupid as all hell. M10s becoming EVEN BETTER as a derp move to counteract the M18 having ridiculous field presence is the very embodiment of Soviet-Union level government inefficiency.

The patch was ridiculously poor, and tiny considering the timeframe since the last patch.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 02:29:58 am by Mysthalin » Logged

SophiaT1991 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 159


« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2012, 02:30:42 am »

Sounds like EiR is tending to the newbs. AVRE is meant to kill entire squads in 1 shot, nearly destroy buildings in 1 shot, be as well removing the timer on its fire. You see a AVRE about to fire at your vet inf, you run the fuck away, its a shock unit, not like the mobile arty wehr and us have.


And I'd prefer trying to get PE and Brits to play like how they were meant to be played in vCoH, but that aint guna happen, so meh, shall see what changes u make for them.
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smurfORnot Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4715



« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2012, 02:34:38 am »

yea,bring brit city back!
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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2012, 02:36:40 am »

As for the AVRE - BULLLLLSHIT. Tigers and Pershings, StuH-type tanks, as well as Howitzers and about 10 kinds of off-maps are all very much so capable of insta-gibbing squads - and a lot of these threats do not have a ridiculous 90 second cooldown on them (or if they do have a cooldown - they do not fight at 35-40 range where they can be fired back upon).

Justifying the AVRE nerf by saying it's "too effective versus vet" (although already stupid) becomes even more ludicrous considering double-shrek stormtroopers were not touched in any capacity.
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3rdCondor Offline
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Posts: 1536


« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2012, 09:05:04 am »

Double shrek storm troopers should never be removed. It costs 305 munitions to purchase 1 squad of double shreks with a medkit. They are a plausible counter to medium armor spam, but extremely vulnerable to HE rounds, super heavies (pershings and crocodile tanks of all types), and any type of infantry. If you give the storm squad a bundle nade, you increase the double shrek squad cost to 350 munitions. Holy shit!

I believe that they should lose the elite armor buff, but the upgrade options need to remain the same. They are an effective unit, but extremely expensive to field. An axis player has to sacrifice massive amounts of resources to field any more than two squads of just regular double shrek/kit stormies.

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No tits, but i will bake a cake then eat it in honour of Sir Condor The 3rd
fuck the pgren rifle, fucking dogshit weapon
My beautiful black pussy won
Tymathee Offline
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Posts: 9741



« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2012, 09:41:01 am »

Double shrek storm troopers should never be removed. It costs 305 munitions to purchase 1 squad of double shreks with a medkit. They are a plausible counter to medium armor spam,

so whats the allied counter to medium armor spam? they have nothing anywhere near effective.
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AmPM Offline
Community Mapper
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2012, 09:46:32 am »

G
so whats the allied counter to medium armor spam? they have nothing anywhere near effective.

M10\M18 both dominate anything besides a super heavy or Panther.
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NightRain Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908



« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2012, 10:54:30 am »

G
M10\M18 both dominate anything besides a super heavy or Panther.

Ranger bazookas are also pretty handy at taking out P4s and Sherman 76mm wins a P4 hands down.
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Because a forum post should be like a woman's skirt. Long enough to cover the subject material, but short enough to keep things interesting.
Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2012, 11:22:22 am »

Also 76mm Jumbo's are really good for dealing with PIV's (you need tank reapers though, a 75mm one gets raped by PIV's)

*Spits drink at screen*

Excuse me?
Logged

I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
NightRain Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908



« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2012, 11:23:39 am »

*Spits drink at screen*

Excuse me?

*pours a new one*

I'm speechless as well.
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RikiRude Offline
Donator
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Posts: 4376



« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2012, 11:51:45 am »

As for the AVRE - BULLLLLSHIT. Tigers and Pershings, StuH-type tanks, as well as Howitzers and about 10 kinds of off-maps are all very much so capable of insta-gibbing squads - and a lot of these threats do not have a ridiculous 90 second cooldown on them (or if they do have a cooldown - they do not fight at 35-40 range where they can be fired back upon).

Justifying the AVRE nerf by saying it's "too effective versus vet" (although already stupid) becomes even more ludicrous considering double-shrek stormtroopers were not touched in any capacity.

fully agreed, there are SO many ways for vet squads to be annihilated, why take avre off that list?

i was one of the first to raise a strong hurrumph against double shreck storms and i still stand by it, nothing in the entire allied arsenal (or the PE arsenal) can do what double schreck storms can do. I mean didn't double shreck falls get taken out some time ago because they too were too powerful.

add in the ability to sprint from either blitzkreig or KIM on top of the possibly of elite armor, pure lameness.
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Quote from: Killer344
Killer344: "Repent: sory no joke i just had savage diorea"
... or a fat ass cock sucking churchill being stupid
terrapinsrock Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1009



« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2012, 12:00:01 pm »

fully agreed, there are SO many ways for vet squads to be annihilated, why take avre off that list?

i was one of the first to raise a strong hurrumph against double shreck storms and i still stand by it, nothing in the entire allied arsenal (or the PE arsenal) can do what double schreck storms can do. I mean didn't double shreck falls get taken out some time ago because they too were too powerful.

add in the ability to sprint from either blitzkreig or KIM on top of the possibly of elite armor, pure lameness.

But there is nothing in the Allied arsenal that costs (in terms as infantry) as much as a Double shreck storm does, so you get what you pay for.

Plus there are tons of counters for them, so they aren't OP at all.  
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 12:02:00 pm by terrapinsrock » Logged
Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2012, 12:03:12 pm »

Double shrek storm troopers should never be removed. It costs 305 munitions to purchase 1 squad of double shreks with a medkit.


*Yawn*. In ratio terms, that's only as big a chunk of your muni as a sherman takes a chunk of your fuel. Unless you decidedly state that Shermans are expensive, you can not claim stormtroopers are expensive.

Plus, they're 5 popcap. 5 fucking popcap per double shrek. 10 popcap per quadra-shrek. Nothing in the game - NOTHING provides that kind of pop-efficient firepower. 2 quad-RR airbrone squads would still fall short of this - being 12 popcap. The currently existing double-RR airborne squads would require 5 RR squads running around in a blob - 30 popcap, to have the same rough damage output as the storms. Being a massive fuckton harder to wield, and costing more than this mythologically expensive call-in of two double-shrek storms.
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hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2012, 12:55:52 pm »

price shouldnt justify everything.

and the pop efficiency is insane!
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Also, bad analogy ground, My vegetables never pissed on my ego when I decided they defeated me and gave up on dessert.
puddin Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1701



« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2012, 01:00:05 pm »

Storms can be great, But Double RR airborne with fireup can be just as devistating over the long run.  AB medic, Fireup, Running around just penetrating everything, Normally Having very very high accuracy at long ranges too. 

Storms are an APLHA Strike unit, As they always have been, They are fucked if there is any kind of flames, or suppression in the area, and are easily crushed by marurding M10s. 
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Puddin' spamtm
i cant really blame smokaz i mean playing against puddin is like trying to fight off breast cancer. You might win and do it and be a bad ass but you'll feel sick and mutilated forever.

Puddin' spamtm is soulcrushing... what's hard to understand about that?
pqumsieh Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2367


« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2012, 01:11:18 pm »

Myst and others clearly didn't read the OP carefully regarding the AVRE. I suggest you test the unit out before you theory craft any more. You have to keep in mind that I actually play test the changes; thus, I don't make changes just because I think its a good idea. I make the changes because there were issues that came up during play testing. Its fine for you to question the changes, as often balance is subjective, but I encourage you to test the changes yourself first.

Regarding the STuH's killing capacity over the Cromwell/Sherman. The STuH does have better killing capacity, but you have to keep in mind this is the design of the Allies vs Axis in regards to infantry. Allies get larger infantry sizes with lower health, Axis get smaller infantry sizes with greater health. Would it be more fair if the Sherman/Cromwell could instantly kill a Grenadier squad? There were other factors considered as well, but nothing worth mentioning here. As a final note, if the medium and large splash damage on the STuH still performs too well, we will lower them slightly in a future patch.

Regarding the size of the patch, we don't always have large portions of free time available to work on the mod. A few people were away over the summer holiday, myself included, resulting in slower progression. Everyone needs to keep in mind that this is a hobby, its not a full time job. We do have lives to tend to Tongue.

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