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[SophiaT1991]

So yeah, they are rather shit, as was basically agreed in that other thread.

What we guna do bout it?


I believe there has to be major changes to the faction as a whole, or certain gameplay aspects (repair system), to make them work in the way intended, or will you will have to mirror them/their units to other factions.

[pqumsieh]

We're looking to addressing PE over the next 2 to 3 balance patches.

Goals are as follows:

- Retain the flavour of PE as a faction
- Refine roles when possible rather than redefine
- Improve their capacity to handle certain tactics
- Make them a competitive and unique faction

[Tymathee]

any specific thing you could add in that you've already decided on?

[EliteGren]

Overdrive on infantry halftracks

[tank130]

I sure see a lot  of people saying PE need work, but I see very few people offering reasonable solutions.

I would hate to see us just mirror factions, so how about some reasonable suggestions?

I have already suggested that PE are a vehicle based faction, so improving their pathing abilities should also improve their survivability.

Anyone else got some ideas?

[AmPM]

PE infantry to 4pop, allows support of their vehicles.

[Uglysori]

I sure see a lot  of people saying PE need work, but I see very few people offering reasonable solutions.

I would hate to see us just mirror factions, so how about some reasonable suggestions?

I have already suggested that PE are a vehicle based faction, so improving their pathing abilities should also improve their survivability.

Anyone else got some ideas?

I believe a number of reasonable changes were offered in:

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=24807.0

There are plenty of threads with complaints about PE with a couple of nuggets of suggestions, they just get derailed so quickly
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=24693.0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=24649.0
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=24543.30
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=18093.0

It's imo hard to offer suggestions when we don't get feedback from BT as to what is reasonable or achievable, so it's a lot of throwing shit on a wall to see what sticks with other ppl shooting ideas down or derailing the threads.

[3rdCondor]

Uglysori nailed it tbh

[Tymathee]

It's imo hard to offer suggestions when we don't get feedback from BT as to what is reasonable or achievable, so it's a lot of throwing shit on a wall to see what sticks with other ppl shooting ideas down or derailing the threads.

[NightRain]

The main problems of PE is as follows:

57mm/6Pdr
HMGs
Handheld AT.

With all these three elements combined Panzer Elite is pretty fucked. You are forced to suicide rush units to neutralize a enemy position. In short a TANK and a 57mm will lock down PE quite efficiently. ATG front, tank behind and just creep forward. You have few choices. You can automatically suicide rush an army to take out that anti tank gun before bringing your own anti tank unit to try to deal with the threat. Chances of this working are rather slim but this was just one of the examples. A single anti tank gun is problematic. 5 anti tank guns on the field at the sametime is just nigh impossible for poor panzer elite and trust me this is common in games above 2vs2, VERY common. Makes life very painful. Almost every single unit dies to 2 hits. That there is the main source of problem. Halftracks require phase armor or increased health so that they can actually survive much longer. Two shots is one dead halftrack, was it a IHT, LATHT, MTH, Vampire, Mun HT, armored car, scout car or 50mm HT.

The reason of them having a phase armor will generally help them against two elements. Anti tank gun shots and RR shots. Zooks will remain as a efficient counter to panzer elite.

Additionally one can also consider modifiers but that gets trickier, modifier to prevent anti tank guns from two shooting halftracks.

The easiest solution: Add pure health to the halftracks to survive.

To certain halftracks it should be recomendable to carry same armor as the universal carrier. BARs will literally tear apart mortar HTs, vampires and so on.

-

HMGs. Now normally people say american machinegun is shit. I disagree. Panzer Elite's survival is dependable on halftracks but since anti tank guns are efficient at countering units on wheels the next solution would be to run infantry. Now we all know Panzer Elite infantry can be compared to a volksgrenadier squad with their basic rifles which basically almost share identical stats with slight differences here and there. Except come with 4 men and 80 health without a medkit. Now engaging positions with a machinegun in them becomes difficult. Suppression of the MG is suitable enough to cut down panzergrens quickly and to lock down an area. Should one try to flush it out with vehicles the infamous AP rounds will be sufficient to force PE to use vehicle with a heavy armor. IST most likely. Sure there are available counters and that HMG is a minor problem, but have you ever, had to face anyone who spams them along with anti tank guns? I have, it is painful to deal with, so painful that I was forced to sit on spawn cause I was unable to do anything.

For HMGs I have nothing though, in a sense they are good but honestly, thinking about a PE sniper would make life a tad easier.

-

Handheld AT. The bane of PE. Zook spam. Only one company can't access zooks in US but it is alright because they can get their hands on US best handheld AT, the RR.

Zooks as a whole will counter Panzer elite's army in a total warfare. For 55 munition you can lockdown everything aside of a panther and IST that comes from panzer elite. Everyone supposedly knows about this.

The increased health on the basic units would solve this issue quite easily. They can survive additional shot and wont be one volleyd to death.

Here be few cents

[kwiatekkek]

lower HHat acc  versus  HTs.
phase armour  for iht.
lower pop and revert  armour  on pgrens.

[tank130]

phase armour  for iht.

Thinks multiple clown cars rushing your flank with phase armor.............

we said fix PE, not break it.....LOL

[PonySlaystation]

Give them regular HMG, Mortar, ATG, Sniper and Engineers. Doesn't have to be mirroring at all, they can still be unique by having different attributes and maintain the mobility of PE by having fast pack-up time etc. These regular units exists for every faction but the PE, they either don't have it or it's vehicle based, which is a huge weakness. Because of this weakness it's not possible to play three PE on the same team but it's possible for all the other factions to do this. They need these essential unit roles that every other faction have. There is really no reason why the PE should have only a support role.

Either that or give PE vehicles better protections against artillery. Simple logic dictates that artillery is used to counter WM support weapons and anti-tank is used to counter PE support weapons, but artillery is also highly effective against PE vehicles.

[NightRain]

Thinks multiple clown cars rushing your flank with phase armor.............

we said fix PE, not break it.....LOL

That is how it is supposed to work Tank. Phase armor would mean that HTs don't automatically die to 2 hits. IHTs from flank filled with infantry that is capable of going close quaters. PE can't work like Wehrmacht, some people play it like that, it just does not work. Its mobility should be rewarded with a sturdiness. Phase armor offers that, more health to units would offer that too. The fact it can POWERHOUSE enemy position with a rapid flank is what PE is all about. Currently it is a suicide to do any of that.

[Scotzmen]

You know what PE needs?

Skittles. Lots. of. fuckin' skittles.

Job done. 

[SophiaT1991]

Give them regular HMG, Mortar, ATG, Sniper and Engineers. Doesn't have to be mirroring at all, they can still be unique by having different attributes and maintain the mobility of PE by having fast pack-up time etc. These regular units exists for every faction but the PE, they either don't have it or it's vehicle based, which is a huge weakness. Because of this weakness it's not possible to play three PE on the same team but it's possible for all the other factions to do this. They need these essential unit roles that every other faction have. There is really no reason why the PE should have only a support role.

Either that or give PE vehicles better protections against artillery. Simple logic dictates that artillery is used to counter WM support weapons and anti-tank is used to counter PE support weapons, but artillery is also highly effective against PE vehicles.

Only reason brits have those items is because we didnt spend enough time thinking of how to implement emplacements.

I shall post a big long post sometime soon after ive written it tbfh.

[Tymathee]

Only reason brits have those items is because we didnt spend enough time thinking of how to implement emplacements.

I shall post a big long post sometime soon after ive written it tbfh.

o rly, and you were around then to know that for sure?

[PonySlaystation]

Emplacements promote boring and stale gameplay and there is very little skill involved. Unlike setting up real defenses and support weapons.

[SophiaT1991]

Emplacements promote boring and stale gameplay and there is very little skill involved. Unlike setting up real defenses and support weapons.

Does not matter, thats what made them different, along with the fact they needed a lt to move quick in enemy territory. While I do not doom fortresses, I do believe emplacements should have a larger role for brits. I wouldnt mind having a 17pder emplacement, or a mortar pit.

[PonySlaystation]

No, the majority of players do not agree with you. You want emplacements? go play Opposing Fronts.