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Author Topic: Simple things to do to improve the mod  (Read 7875 times)
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Dnicee Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 998



« on: October 03, 2012, 06:22:49 pm »

So while i got shipped away to omg mod i had some time to think about what we could do to improve eir.

1) remove the doctrines and build them up one step at the time (tier 1 first then tier 2 etc).

By doing this it will be much easier to see the balance issues and then fixing them.

2) From my understanding we wont get a proper warmap in a couple of months so my suggestion for this is, disable the warmap we have now (since its not that great in current state). Get the old territory (warmap) system back, when it just were numbers.

3) Add the old battle report message (from old EiR) that everyone can see after the latest game played.

4) Its a bad idea to bann to many people right now when there are no players left. so dont unless you have to.

5) give some reward points

6) remove repair kits or make a cancel button, add self-destruction back in.

7) remove offmaps, they are lame and fuck up good gameplay.

Cool quick fix PE faction, it should be top priority.



This is some quite easy steps to bring people back imo.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 06:30:20 pm by Dnicee » Logged

Vermillion_Hawk Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1282



« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2012, 06:24:59 pm »


6) remove repair kits or make a cancel button, add self-destruction back in.


How would this help bring people in?

Moreover, exactly what about fixing the PE faction as a whole is "simple"?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 06:26:44 pm by Vermillion_Hawk » Logged

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Dnicee Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 998



« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2012, 06:28:52 pm »

cause repair kits are lame and should go or they need a cancel button.

repair kit makes your tank very limited which is dull, boring and lame.
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Vermillion_Hawk Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1282



« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2012, 06:32:50 pm »

I agree perhaps with the cancel button, as it prematurely ends your repair and thus you would miss out on that extra bit of health, but removing repair kits altogether is probably a bad idea.
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Dnicee Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 998



« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2012, 06:39:36 pm »

Maybe add repair bunkers back in or something.

Yeah, youre right. Fixing PE is probably not easy. But I had to write it anyways.
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EIRRMod Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 11009



« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2012, 06:53:16 pm »

Hey Dnice, thanks for your post - Ill cover it step by step to let you know where we're at and why.

So while i got shipped away to omg mod i had some time to think about what we could do to improve eir.

1) remove the doctrines and build them up one step at the time (tier 1 first then tier 2 etc).

By doing this it will be much easier to see the balance issues and then fixing them.
Well, we have the doctrine drafts currently, I think it would be quite a good idea to go along this path.

I'll see what we can do.

Quote
2) From my understanding we wont get a proper warmap in a couple of months so my suggestion for this is, disable the warmap we have now (since its not that great in current state). Get the old territory (warmap) system back, when it just were numbers.
You might be right with the estimate.  The old warmap code is gone.  Like, not even in the server/client anymore - Id have to recode it.  So what I *CAN* do, is reset the warmap and slow it down.
The imbalance with it, is two tier.  No actual reason to be anywhere but the type of territory you need to be in (MU, FU etc) for you company, AND no reason to capture frontline sectors/be in the frontline.

Quote
3) Add the old battle report message (from old EiR) that everyone can see after the latest game played.
Would love to add this, but as its just flair, its a lower priority.
If I get say, 20 people saying they want this in my inbox, Ill put it in next patch.  (Due to popularity)

Quote
4) Its a bad idea to bann to many people right now when there are no players left. so dont unless you have to.
The website, and the community is currently hostile (mostly).  Full of trolling, insults and rage.
The increased moderation is a way of showing that we will not do that anymore.  If you want to be here and join in the fun, by all means, but follow the rules - and just be fucking NICE to each other.  Build up excitement rather than dissention.  Id rather have a couple of people playing, who respect each other, than a fucking pirrana pit of trolls and assholes.

I get it, people are a bit disgruntled at the moment, I take responsibility for this.  Progress has been slow, and bugs remaining for a long time.  Expected releases have been delayed.  I get it.  I hope it can get better, and thats what Im working on this this week.  24/7.  Eat, Sleep and code.  So expect something new soon(tm) lol.

Quote
5) give some reward points
That system is gone, I'll give everyone some wargold (or whatever its called) - enough to buy a pack of cards at the first implementation.

Quote
6) remove repair kits or make a cancel button, add self-destruction back in.
Has been on the table a while.  A cancel button (with say a 10 sec delay till it works) would be my first choice (as a caught repairing tank should be *caught* for at least a little bit) - on top of perhaps a self-des button (with say 20/30 sec delay) would work for me.  Make a post - Ill discuss it there.

Quote
7) remove offmaps, they are lame and fuck up good gameplay.
For you.  I personally love offmaps.  I am thinking of ways to change the system, so they dont feel 'free'.

Quote
Cool quick fix PE faction, it should be top priority.
Would love some input on how (constructive) - as the SDT feels the same.

Quote
This is some quite easy steps to bring people back imo.
Quite easy for who exactly?  This is a months worth of stuff even just to scratch the surface.  Its 'easy' to think about what to fix and how, its NOT easy to implement changes with such a small team.

Thanks though Dnice, hope you're enjoying OMG Wink
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EIRRMod Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 11009



« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2012, 06:54:39 pm »

Maybe add repair bunkers back in or something.
Repair bunkers and repairing in its old state will not be coming back.

The whole REASON kits were added was because it created 'unlimited' tanks.  With the kits, you have a set number of times you can do it.
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RikiRude Offline
Donator
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Posts: 4376



« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2012, 07:12:49 pm »

heres the thing, i like the repair kits, but i miss repair bunkers simply because they were fun to go behind the lines and kill!

but a cancel button with a delay would be awesome! self destruct would be good as well.
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RikiRude Offline
Donator
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Posts: 4376



« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2012, 07:17:15 pm »

as far as doctrines go i think most people can agree that all t1 and t2 are pretty balanced. it would be interesting to see doctrines with just these, then slowly add in the t3s, and see how duel t3s work, then finally add in t4s.
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tank130 Offline
Sugar Daddy
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Posts: 8889


« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2012, 08:39:28 pm »

The doctrines have been reworked, just not implemented. So at this point, in theory they are balanced and do not need to be released one or two tiers at a time.

That being said, the only way to ensure they are truly balanced in game play is to get them out there and test them in game.

When we have trained up the new coders for doctrines, then we can start the long process of getting them coded.
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8thRifleRegiment Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2210



« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2012, 09:05:30 pm »

These 2 dnicee threads are da #truth
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Smokaz Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 11418



« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2012, 09:12:50 pm »

Repair bunkers and repairing in its old state will not be coming back.

The whole REASON kits were added was because it created 'unlimited' tanks.  With the kits, you have a set number of times you can do it.

I would like to take the time out of my lack of interest lately because of little development to comment on this. How normal was it for players to be able to repair a tank 2-3 times worth its health, or maybe to be more fair, what a repair kit currently repairs for its class - maybe not all that normal even with the old repair bunker system? The repair oriented doctrines I think pull off matching whatever amounts were being repaired with the old system.

To me, when I play OMG, the repairing adds a lot of depth to conserving tanks. And you hardly end up repairing half the amounts you repair in a EIRR game. So kits are maybe on average giving out more repairs than a system where repairing is a continual process constantly able to be canceled and restarted.
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EIRRMod Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 11009



« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2012, 11:22:59 pm »

Fair call, but the decaying repair system of OMG, has the side effect of showing a full health tank (repaired multiple times) as 100% where as its 20%, 1 hit and its dead.

The set numbers put a resource sink into the number of repairs, rather than a variable amount (an engineer may get 1 tank to full health, or 5 tanks... I know its an out there number).

Just my opinion, Im sure there are other ways to solve this kit2000 issue.
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Shabtajus Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2564


The very best player of one of the four factions.

« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2012, 12:53:03 am »



That system is gone, I'll give everyone some wargold (or whatever its called) - enough to buy a pack of cards at the first implementation.

Thanks though Dnice, hope you're enjoying OMG Wink

andy and Riki ot rew units after donating, trust me it wa so funny play vs rew units, i am imagine it is even more funny to have them, so why not? Feed bored players with some rew units to spark gaming fire again. What u gonna lose? Cuz atm its so hard to get a game, eirr deserted like never before. These rew units defenitly will make guys come back and play again 100 proc.
Anyway u gonna release patch soon, so untill than at least we could enjoy having rew units and u will get some more info about them are they to op are to up
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EIRRMod Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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Posts: 11009



« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2012, 01:17:16 am »

andy and Riki ot rew units after donating, trust me it wa so funny play vs rew units, i am imagine it is even more funny to have them, so why not? Feed bored players with some rew units to spark gaming fire again. What u gonna lose? Cuz atm its so hard to get a game, eirr deserted like never before. These rew units defenitly will make guys come back and play again 100 proc.
Anyway u gonna release patch soon, so untill than at least we could enjoy having rew units and u will get some more info about them are they to op are to up
Ill see what I can do Wink
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Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2012, 05:40:17 am »

You know, I've found unless you have heaps of experience or specific knowledge of unit health/weapon damage, most people don't realise just how many rounds it takes for x weapon to kill y unit.

Would it be possible to implement a number display for health either on the unit in field or in the unit information box at the bottom of the screen?
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Ahnungsloser Offline
Donator
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Posts: 1447



« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2012, 05:55:38 am »

All of the mention points would be completly obsolete when some guys haven't stomped the new player which tried this mod from time to time. It will not change anything if there will be some cool stuff released and the core of the community comes back when the community itself does not expand.

When the community would be much more attractive for beginner we would easily have 50 players in average in the launcher. When the warmap came out and some guys made 3 million announcements in the company of heroes channels we all could notice a massive difference in the launcher but we could not stabilize this.

Termless feeding of bored player will attract the hardliner of this mod to come back. They will check some fancy stuff and after two weeks the magic is gone and they will stop playing this mod again. On top of that these player will ask for much more stuff in the future because they got easily feed with stuff in the past.


The most parts of this community are high skilled players and it's hard to find the golden way between the hardliner of the community and the beginner of this community. Maybe serve reward points for mentoring and give the new players some sort of of experience and reroll bonus that they motivation to play this mod even if they company got smacked in the game. Remove experience bonus from high level companies which are playing against new ones. (It's so frustrating to watch a stream where some new guys get smacked by vet 3 armies and they have no idea how to fight against this)

Remove implicity off-maps, nothing is more retarded then that a new guys call in gets smashed by a 280mm barrage in A+ mode and the game has not started but this person already lost his main call in. Noobs love offmaps and they like to play with them even if they lose the game, maybe it's possible to give beginner a real offmap bonus. (The noob advantage may terribly nice, but extra smoke barrages are to complicated a need a fitted tactic to be usefull. The newcomer just thinks "It can't kill? - Fuck this useless shit!")


Enough from this. Just my two cents.



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Shabtajus Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2564


The very best player of one of the four factions.

« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2012, 06:13:58 am »

why u say so ahnugloser? how many games have u played in the last month?

i mean all those will be, would be, could be theories comes from aguys who aint even play a game and those who still left in launcher (not in forums) they are sick and bored, if we had some cool rew units again at least temporary it would be big difference at amount of players in launcher. Plus i dont get it why its so bad? mod aint lose nothing... guys gets fun... so whats the problem man? at least launcher aint be empty untill massive patch will hit a floor
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skaffa Offline
Honoured Member
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Posts: 3130


The very best player of one of the four factions.

« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2012, 06:26:38 am »

I think ahnungs has a point that updates bring all the regular players back but the problem of not being able to keep new players will remain the same.

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Groundfire Offline
EIRR community manager
EIR Veteran
Posts: 8511



« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2012, 06:30:03 am »

Fair call, but the decaying repair system of OMG, has the side effect of showing a full health tank (repaired multiple times) as 100% where as its 20%, 1 hit and its dead.



I wanted to comment on this specificially. There is SCAR code that OMG came up with to show the current/max heath numerically in the UI bar. It's from that old ToV operations mode and could very easily be adapted here. It's how they get around this problem. You always have an exact idea of how much health your tank has. (It also works with unit experience)

I have the tutorial if you'd like to look at it Che. I think it would be an easy addition.
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