Allies and Brit are too OP

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[ick312]

considering myself as an experienced hummel user, i
 can tell that the hummel barrage has the most devastating effect on support weapons. The fire kills them, even if the shell didnt directly hit the target. So very powerful vs support weapons also a hit into a blob can really hurt with incendary shells.

the devastating effect of the rca, is from my point of view neither the on map arty nor its buffs. My impression is that the offmaps and the foo arty both come too quick down.

by the way i think that the calli is the best one

[Hicks58]

The Hummel deals 200 damage per shell, with the 25 Pounder dealing 125 damage per shell.

However, Hummel rounds have a maximum effective splash radius of 8 units whilst the 25 Pounder has a maximum effective splash radius of 7 units.

Hummel rounds have the following for damage and range at each section:

Short - 1.5 damage (300), 2 range
Medium - 0.7 damage (140), 4 range
Long - 0.5 damage (100), 6 range
Distant - 0.3 damage (60), 8 range

On the other hand, the 25 Pounder has the following:

Short - 1.5 damage (187.5), 1 range
Medium - 0.75 damage (93.75), 4 range
Long - 0.3 damage (37.5), 7 range
Distant - 0 damage (0), 10 range (As you can see, 25 Pounder effective range is only 7, even though it states it goes up to 10 due to it doing zero damage at distant range)

The Hummel rounds utterly kick the crap out of 25 Pounder rounds at all ranges, and are lethal to ALL allied infantry at up to long range, whilst still being able to kill Riflemen/Sappers (And potentially roll crits on Rangers/Tommy's/etc) at distant range. 25 Pounders are only lethal at up to medium range, making the Hummel round lethal up to 6 units, while the 25 Pounder is lethal up to 4 units. Furthermore, the Hummel round will be doing significantly more damage to armour, with the ability to one-shot anything smaller than an M10, or cripple anything smaller than a Pershing/Churchill.

This is without even taking Incendiary rounds into consideration.

[RikiRude]

Pony is crazy. RCA giving you trouble? send some upgun pumas behind lines kill their arty, easy. I know the frequency of the arty can be annoying, but just move your units a lot.

hummel though? if it's giving you trouble you have to bring mine sweepers, make sure there is a safe route to the hummel, then bring m10s,m18s, or drop AB. because if there's a hummel, there's also road blocks and mine fields. also i regularly have paks survive 25 pounder hits, i rarely have atgs survive hummel hits, sometimes not only is the crew killed, the fire burns the gun as well. incendiary rounds also have a huge radius. so even if the round does 0 damage, you can often see units die or get quite wounded from the burn.

[PonySlaystation]

Creeping barrage fires more than twice as many rounds as a hummel hicks.

[Hicks58]

Creeping barrage fires more than twice as many rounds as a hummel hicks.

Except the only rounds in a creeping barrage actually worth anything are those in the first salvo, which is 2-4 rounds. Everything else is easily avoided.

If you take a look at the statistics that I posted, you'll see that the first two rounds of a Hummel barrage (The ones which have a chance of hitting something not suppressed/disabled) are pretty much on par with 3-4 25 Pounder rounds.

[RikiRude]

Upgunned puma's won't do anything if the RCA guy/gal has BCMMG's and mines

mines are pretty easy to avoid if you are microing your pumas. and who has bren carriers with AP rounds hanging out in case of pumas? chances of success in most cases is probably pretty high.

[PonySlaystation]

Riki, why do you assume that SE players defend their hummel but RCA players don't defend their artillery?

[Hicks58]

SE Players tend to hover their Hummel's in the back lines of their forces, whilst still in reaction range. Not only that, dedicated protection pieces are pretty pop-cheap such as a Shreck clown car, which can provide decent AI/AT protection until the main force turns up.

The mobile nature of the Hummel allows it's cover to be mobile too. Protecting a 25 Pounder adds to how much pop you have doing nothing considering how far back most people build it (Building it forward runs the risk of shifting battle lines leaving it vulnerable) so a lot of people, and even myself, tend not to dedicate units for protection.

There's then the point of usually having 1-2 more 25 Pounders to replace the current one should it be lost, and it only costing 120 FU a time. For most people, their fielded Hummel is their only one meaning that it's loss has a huge impact resulting in much more cautious play.

[RikiRude]

Riki, why do you assume that SE players defend their hummel but RCA players don't defend their artillery?

because i see it time and time again? a RCA player unless they are doing some kind of arty spam bring 1-2 sapper squads with mines, maybe 3 sapper squads. this means they mine 2-6 choke points or roads leading to their arty. maybe they will build tank traps? but i dont think i ever see them do that.

the SE player, their entire doctrine is based on area denial. they bring a 2x muni HTs, which is only 6 pop, they can put goliaths, and mine fields, an block off huge areas. add in the road blocks any smart SE player would use, and you have much larger areas of the map cut off.

my point isn't that RCA players dont protect their stuff, it's the fact that SE players usually do it much better, and much more efficiently.

[Uglysori]

I am not exactly sure why some players are having trouble killing a Hummel.  Any unit with AT capability and is faster than a Hummel will eventually kill it or drive it off.  Use your faster speed to obviously chase after the Hummel or ram into it to impede its movement and increase your accuracy.  See M8s running into the Hummel and dropping mines.  

It seems really silly to have to list it out what can kill a Hummel.  I would hope the Brits remember that they have some of the most powerful anti-hummel units in the game given the dmg bonuses as well as those units having phase armor.  They also have the ability to drop certain offmaps on the Hummel in conjunction with such attacks.  Best defense for a Hummel isn't actually keeping in the rear but actually near the frontline within reaction time of your entire sides AT along with judicious movement with the waxing and waning of the battle line.  

Don't bother using a clowncar w/ TBs to protect your Hummel.  Anything coming after your Hummel usually has more than enough AT capability to blow up or cripple your IHT, leaving you with usually a TB squad out of position that can be bumped all day.  The IHT AI capabilities are nominal also as the two most common infantry units that drop in your backline to hunt Hummels have both the AT ability to knock it out quickly and the anti-suppression ability to ignore it's mg.  Save the fuel or the HT for flanking runs.  Shreks in a house are a much better defense as you can dance around the house to break LOS etc while you buy time.

Given the costs of the Hummel, I would hope that statistically the Hummel is superior to a single 25lbr but the reality of the matter is given the cooldown of the Hummel and it's prohibitive costs and pop, the allied side usually pulls ahead in the long range arty battle.  They are simply too many targets, too few good indirect options for PE to stop ATG creep, and allied arty is too cheap for a single Hummel to counter.  

Killing a single 25lbr with a Hummel barrage is iffy.  With inc warheads you can possibly decrew a 25lbr if u hit it dead-on with a single shell.  The burn out effect usually leaves it decrewed with 1/6 life remaining on the 25lbr and recrew gives it more life and a fresh new arty timer.  To totally destroy one you need at least one close hit along with the emplacement being splashed with the burn radius of a 2nd shot.  

Defending should arty should ideally be simpler for the allied player as they have access to mines on a cheaper useful platform and Axis backfielders tend to be less cost effective compared to Allies given doctrines and the current AT heavy meta.  Saturation minefields are no man zones for both sides as fighting in one can be as much of a detriment for your team as the enemy.  Nothing annoys me more than splash damaging a slow mine that affects a friendly vehicle.  They also require almost constant protection so that a single lowly minesweeper or a medium tank rolling thru it doesn't take it out.  Lastly with saturation minefields and goliaths you are looking at 210 muni each on those muni HT assuming you don't bother with repairs, along with a total fuel cost of 70 which could easily be used on other things.      


    



  

[ick312]

I am not exactly sure why some players are having trouble killing a Hummel.  Any unit with AT capability and is faster than a Hummel will eventually kill it or drive it off.  Use your faster speed to obviously chase after the Hummel or ram into it to impede its movement and increase your accuracy.  See M8s running into the Hummel and dropping mines.  

It seems really silly to have to list it out what can kill a Hummel.  I would hope the Brits remember that they have some of the most powerful anti-hummel units in the game given the dmg bonuses as well as those units having phase armor.  They also have the ability to drop certain offmaps on the Hummel in conjunction with such attacks.  Best defense for a Hummel isn't actually keeping in the rear but actually near the frontline within reaction time of your entire sides AT along with judicious movement with the waxing and waning of the battle line.  

Don't bother using a clowncar w/ TBs to protect your Hummel.  Anything coming after your Hummel usually has more than enough AT capability to blow up or cripple your IHT, leaving you with usually a TB squad out of position that can be bumped all day.  The IHT AI capabilities are nominal also as the two most common infantry units that drop in your backline to hunt Hummels have both the AT ability to knock it out quickly and the anti-suppression ability to ignore it's mg.  Save the fuel or the HT for flanking runs.  Shreks in a house are a much better defense as you can dance around the house to break LOS etc while you buy time.

Given the costs of the Hummel, I would hope that statistically the Hummel is superior to a single 25lbr but the reality of the matter is given the cooldown of the Hummel and it's prohibitive costs and pop, the allied side usually pulls ahead in the long range arty battle.  They are simply too many targets, too few good indirect options for PE to stop ATG creep, and allied arty is too cheap for a single Hummel to counter.  

Killing a single 25lbr with a Hummel barrage is iffy.  With inc warheads you can possibly decrew a 25lbr if u hit it dead-on with a single shell.  The burn out effect usually leaves it decrewed with 1/6 life remaining on the 25lbr and recrew gives it more life and a fresh new arty timer.  To totally destroy one you need at least one close hit along with the emplacement being splashed with the burn radius of a 2nd shot.  

Defending should arty should ideally be simpler for the allied player as they have access to mines on a cheaper useful platform and Axis backfielders tend to be less cost effective compared to Allies given doctrines and the current AT heavy meta.  Saturation minefields are no man zones for both sides as fighting in one can be as much of a detriment for your team as the enemy.  Nothing annoys me more than splash damaging a slow mine that affects a friendly vehicle.  They also require almost constant protection so that a single lowly minesweeper or a medium tank rolling thru it doesn't take it out.  Lastly with saturation minefields and goliaths you are looking at 210 muni each on those muni HT assuming you don't bother with repairs, along with a total fuel cost of 70 which could easily be used on other things.      

^+1

[Poppi]

all i got to say is from what ive seen Hummels always earn their keep and beyond. Saturating a area into obliteration often gibbing vet 4 inf and rangers and snipers in one hit, and then relocate . And since no game is ever a "all things equal" game. There is no simple solution. Ya rangers and m8s. but come on thats like saying all frodo had to do was walk to mordor and drop a ring in a volcano.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Well honestly if anyone ever has a prblem defending their hummels they should just do as gork did and master the arts of defending a hummel with another hummel and if anyone ever has an issue of killing one do as i do and take an ATG around their flank and kill the Hummel that way.

[NightRain]

Though, Axis only have to spend 180mp and 20fuel to kill a 25 (cost of two bikes/ one scout car).

Allies have to spend more to kill a Hummel.

Then again, it costs the same amount to field a unit to kill a Hummel than it does to field a unit to kill a Priest (280/290mp + 90/80fuel).

Honestly axis could spend 80 manpower 10 mun and 1 pop to kill a 25Pdr. The problem is not killing it, the problem is killing it fast enough

This is due to the fact that if you decrew your 25Pdr it instantly gains slight bit of health and once you recrew it its almost to full health.