Map Review

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[Masacree]

I just wanted to make a quick comment on the whole map appreciation process. We should not forget that while it is certainly true some maps simply don't receive the exposure they need for them to become appreciated by the community, because of said community's flawed preconceptions on a given map, or its rigid stance towards what maps it wants to play, SOME maps have only over time attained received their well deserved popularity. A map that comes to mind here is Leo's Bergen, which nobody wanted to play for a long time when it was first introduced but then several weeks or even months down the road did become one of the more popular 2vs2 maps in the end. (I remember being one of the first players to push for playing Bergen in 2vs2s because from my perspective there really was nothing wrong with the map)

Thus certain more established and active players can play a very big role in the map appreciation process and sometimes just time itself can too, as community map preferences do tend to slowly shift over time. Personally I don't think 'forcing' this process is a good step. If you remove Neuville people will just go play Tanteville, Bocage or Abbeville. What's important is that we as developers work out a system to promote or encourage new maps being played, through the warmap as well as that certain more active and established community players take up their responsibility and give new maps at least the initial exposure they deserve. (And then ideally also provide feedback for the mapper. I see Wind is doing this, which is great, but more should follow his example)

Here's some real wisdom.

Thank you Unk.

[tank130]

What's important is that we as developers work out a system to promote or encourage new maps being played, through the warmap.............

Great wisdom.....

I have only been with this mod for 5 years. In those 5 years, Unknown and others have encouraged this line of thinking. Have the developers create a system of promoting or encouraging the play of new maps or under played maps.

This system has not been implemented or even drafting in the development team for the 5 years I have been here.

Unknown:
Could you give myself, the rest of the development team, and the community an idea of the time line we are looking at to get this system in place?

I think it is great to offer incredibly awesome alternatives, but almost insulting to offer a solution you know will not see the light of day in the near future if ever.


While we are offering solutions that will never happen, let me throw out the solution I proposed to the development team many moos ago.

- Tie map choice to Warmap progression (nothing new)
- Each sector will have a small group of maps tied to it. At RTL, a map is randomly picked from that group.
- Because we are not capable of coding the game to force the players to play that map once they get into CoH. we have to come up with something else.
- To promote playing the launcher selected map, the chance of receiving Warmap 'rare' cards or additional bonuses would be increased if playing the selected map and largely reduced by not playing it - for both the winning and loosing teams.

Simple system that encourages playing all the maps (obviously we would have remove the completely broken maps)

This  system and any other similar system are fantastic idea covered in flowers and everything nice. Unfortunately we live and play in a life of reality. The reality is our development team will not get this in place in the near future. The resources to do so are just not there.

[nikomas]

And the simple stopgap measure would be to have the launcher suggest a map upon RTS, and it would be up to the players to pick the map the launcher suggests.

Yeah, some people will still argue, but fuck them.

[aeroblade56]

Or just have certain territories on the warmap be a maps. Such as when you attack/defend austria it's a neuville and map or something.

[tank130]

And the simple stopgap measure would be to have the launcher suggest a map upon RTS, and it would be up to the players to pick the map the launcher suggests.

Yeah, some people will still argue, but fuck them.

Who is going to code that - there is no development going on right now. Has not been for about 2 months

Or just have certain territories on the warmap be a maps. Such as when you attack/defend austria it's a neuville and map or something.

That is exactly what I just posted above....

[tank130]

.............. If you remove Neuville people will just go play Tanteville, Bocage or Abbeville.

I am seriously considering removing the highest played maps for a week, just to get some rotation happening.................

This thread has never been about just neuville, but that is what people are QQ about for some reason

[TheWindCriesMary]

they said that my map is good and fun to play on but except the 4 test games before release it got played 2 times without giving feedback about pathing issues in detail. The only thing i get to know is that rumours are out there letting guys avoid my map.

If its only the issue with the pathing and just a reducement of some obstacles, why the fuck do u mark it as a bad map?? I know why, coz u havent played it yet and therefore no idea.

iam sry that i only focus on that map, but that actually referes to the other new maps too.

i also made a new topic about these issues. no one responses coz no one plays it. And i guess it will stay there for the next weeks.

And every player, i had a good mix of pro and medium ones, agreed on liking the map. Now the pathing issue remains and can be done easy with help, u decide to stop and just remain silent or mark it as a bad map.

We should put the first 10 maps out of the map list tbh. For a week i guess. I mean if we test it, lets see the results.

Hans, people are not obligated to provide constant reviews of your map. It takes effort and time to play a map and then put in the thought to write a detailed review. This is even harder when it becomes apparent that a person has a "my map is great it's just people that are messed up. They aren't giving it a fair shake so they say it sucks" attitude.

I kind of like your map because it is different and unorthodox, but by far the vast majority of people I see in the lobby and in-game don't like it for those same reasons. I'd say in one in three games somebody suggests it and the rest of the players say no.

I suggest pathing as just one of the reasons why people don't like it but there must be others as well. It is not incumbent, however, upon other people to give you answers. If they do, great. If they don't, it's still your responsibility to find out how to fix the map if you're the one who wants it to be played.

[hans]

Hans, people are not obligated to provide constant reviews of your map. It takes effort and time to play a map and then put in the thought to write a detailed review. This is even harder when it becomes apparent that a person has a "my map is great it's just people that are messed up. They aren't giving it a fair shake so they say it sucks" attitude.

I kind of like your map because it is different and unorthodox, but by far the vast majority of people I see in the lobby and in-game don't like it for those same reasons. I'd say in one in three games somebody suggests it and the rest of the players say no.

I suggest pathing as just one of the reasons why people don't like it but there must be others as well. It is not incumbent, however, upon other people to give you answers. If they do, great. If they don't, it's still your responsibility to find out how to fix the map if you're the one who wants it to be played.

that is not my point. my point is they are hatin the map although 2 game were regular played on it. SO did those guys play the map? i guess no. that are the rumours i have talked about before.

But whatever, i be silent now and see how the next 100 games go for neuville while no one really helps with pathing issues or even tries this map. Maybe it will go in a different direction after some month. but the motivation to do the changes right now is alot bigger than after 1 or 2 month or more. whatever, u guys can do what ever u want.

[tank130]

that is not my point. my point is they are hatin the map although 2 game were regular played on it. SO do those guys ever played the map? i guess no. that are the rumours i have talked about before.

But whatever, i be silent now and see how the next 100 games go for neuville while no one really helps with pathing issues or even tries this map. Maybe it will go in a different direction after some month. but the motivation to do the changes right now is alot bigger than after 1 or 2 month or more. whatever, u guys can do what ever u want.

Hans, and this goes for all new map makers, myself included:

If people have posted issues with your map, then fix them. Post some blank images like I did so people can paint them like Wind did for me. You need to make the effort to make it easy for people or nothing will happen.

You may not like it, but it is the only viable solution to learning to be a better mapper and get your map played.

I will be making changes with the map rotations to get the maps played, but we as mappers need to make the steps to ensure our product is worthy.

[Shabtajus]

lol Wind instead of judging new maps u better play more them and QQ less when u r asked to try new maps instead of Forest or Bocage like last 2 games i played vs ya


I say its very lucky for us that tank,hans,gork,gren made new maps it sparks game joy again, at least for me so gj guys and thx for new maps u have created

[hans]

Hans, and this goes for all new map makers, myself included:

If people have posted issues with your map, then fix them. Post some blank images like I did so people can paint them like Wind did for me. You need to make the effort to make it easy for people or nothing will happen.

You may not like it, but it is the only viable solution to learning to be a better mapper and get your map played.

I will be making changes with the map rotations to get the maps played, but we as mappers need to make the steps to ensure our product is worthy.

they say its a pathing issue. i have tested the map 4 times and made changes. now they still complain about them. But just sayin pathing issues in the centre doesnt really help me. i can reduce cover or antitank obstacles. but then they complain that it has not enough cover.

so what i was needing would have been:

ur map has pathing issues in centre, those antitank obstacles on the roads or next to the roads are fucking up pathing. then i say okay, i gonna delete those. so a detail instead of general feelings help. only pathing issues means for me to change the map like again 100 times. Not with the effect it should have. Its like Russian roulette if u dont now the triggers.

u guys understand me?

PS: iam not that new. i have made some maps already. but making them, and playing them are different shoes.

+

rumours instead of playin the map doesnt help either

[Ahnungsloser]

Don't ask for permission to remove the maps  - Just do it. The map rotation team in vCoH doesn't asked for permission to remove/add some maps they just do it.
Sometimes it sucks when there are some fraction favoured maps in the pool but at least there is a sort of variation with it.



Just make sure that in every rotation pool is one classic-all-time-favourite map in addition to the new maps. With the next rotation, exchange the classic
map with a different one while keeping all the other new maps.

If that systems sucks and nobody keeps playing this mod it's no big deal to rechange that system and re-add all maps into a big pool. Until that day we should
give that rotation system at least a try.

[PonySlaystation]

That's the fucked up city center of D-Day..... but what..... hold on just a second.... fuck me, if I  put just a little less space between those buildings..... no way, it can't be. That cluster fuck called Dday, is an amended stamp of Tanteville.

Tanteville isn't perfect either. It caters to vehicles for that specific reason, there is not a lot of cover for infantry.

[tank130]

Tanteville isn't perfect either. It caters to vehicles for that specific reason, there is not a lot of cover for infantry.

Yet it was the number one map in the history of Eir until Nueville came along. Once again proving that you need to play the map to judge it. Looking at pictures and saying "it does not look like neuville, so it must suck" is the problem we are dealing with here.

A person can skew the numbers how ever they want to sway their argument. For example, a person could say this:

The highest player base and the most number of games played in Eirr history was while Tanteville was the number one map.
Neuville became the number one map and the mod is at some of the lowest player numbers we have seen in years.

I guess that means Nueville crushed Eirr.......LOL
Disclaimer: This is a fictitious example. No one said this or is implying this. If you are too stupid to get that, you will be banned from this forum....lol

That is complete bullshit, just like judging a map from a couple of screen shots is bullshit. Even more bullshit is refusing to play a map because you "heard" it sucks.

The whole point of this thread and the reason it was brought up is: people are refusing to try new maps because of rumors and armchair map analysis. Until the majority of the community stops that behavior,as map lead I need to find an alternative that does not require coding.

[PonySlaystation]

Tank, that's only because the other maps were even worse.

[nikomas]

Egletons - I like it

That's about all I have to say for now.

[tank130]

Tank, that's only because the other maps were even worse.

riiiiiighttttt........

You gonna continue that ridiculous argument all the way down the list.... So you are suggesting all maps can not compare to Neuville, so it would be best if we just eliminate them all. I believe that was also Leo's suggestion.

You know what would go really good with that load a crap.... how about everyone gets the same company as well. We just build one "best" company and everyone just play with that.

[PonySlaystation]

My point is simply, Tanteville was the best of crappy maps. When Neuville came it revolutionized all that because it set a much higher standard. Your map should therefor not try to live up to the standard of Tanteville. Also one or two pieces of cover is not going to change the map, even Tanteville has a little bit of cover in the town.

[Masacree]

tankedit: Unrelated Troll removed

[tank130]

Hey Massacre......

You have taken an attitude the last few days to just go out of your way to troll. In this case, to troll Tank130.

We have forum rules in place to encourage our guests NOT to partake in that activity. We suggest you familiarize yourself with that HERE.

Most notable is this section of the forum rules:

9. Trolling
Intentionally posting remarks to enrage others or to start an argument is not acceptable. Trolling will result in deleted posts and/or forum bans.

Your trolling of anyone on these forums is counter productive and disruptive of the work we are trying to accomplish.

This will be your only warning

Regards