Map Review

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[tank130]

We have released four new maps in the last couple of days. I would like to hear some input on what you see.

I have concerns whether the new maps are actually getting a fair try out or not. For example, I was in a game and one of the players said he had played one of the maps several times and it sucked. I checked the map list and it had only had 1 play........

I had another player refuse to play my map because he said it was a beach map.
I had another player refuse to play Eglton because "all of Gorks maps suck"
Another player claimed a map sucked because he was attacking and couldn't attack well on it.

My concerns are that one or two players QQ about a map, so everyone else just assumes it is true, resulting in playing neuville......

Taking myself out of the equation so as not to sound biased: I think it is bullshit that elitegren Gork, Hans and others put a shit ton of work into making maps, only to have them not played due to rumor and misconceptions.

I am seriously considering removing the highest played maps for a week, just to get some rotation happening. This mod was here for several years before Neuville came along, I am sure we could survive with out it for a week....LOL

[tank130]

Correction: We have 6 new maps to choose from

TroamDeCaen
mcgechaenswar
Adaire - redesigned
D_Day
Egletons
Feld

[Hicks58]

I am seriously considering removing the highest played maps for a week, just to get some rotation happening. This mod was here for several years before Neuville came along, I am sure we could survive with out it for a week....LOL

This.

[nikomas]

This.

Do it

[PonySlaystation]

I have played most of my recent games on the new maps. I think it's just a small minority who are reluctant to play the new maps.

Also add my map.

[TheWindCriesMary]

If played almost all the new maps a few times, here's what I've found.

Keep in mind this is just one guy's opinion so shop around:

mcgechaenswar:

 One of my favourite vcoh maps but the shape feels very wrong for EIR. It's more of a small square than a long, narrow map which means that fronts become very awkward. The awkward spawn locations also have a tendency to create one 1v1 and one 2v2 happening at the same time, but to simultaneously also make it confusing for the game to unfold in any kind of directional front line vs front line.

I don't think this will be a popular map. If we're talking possible solutions, I think making it longer or moving all spawns to the corners like previous Chateau versions might do it.


Adaire - redesigned:

I like Adaire a lot. I get a lot of "no adaire" when I suggest it in games or host with it, but I like it. I think the only thing holding it back from catching on is that the majority of EiR players seem to be averse to any kind of congested city -- something that I think is BS because I don't find the city in Adaire has any major pathing problems that jump out at me. It has fields, it has cities, and it looks nice.

Adaire is a fun map in my opinion

D_Day:

I didn't enjoy playing on this map as I found the spawn area, or rather just outside the beach spawn area to be really awkward. I know that it's in early testing though and that the big trench is in works to being fixed so I'll comment further then. I think it has potential to be a good map once the early growing pains are ironed out.

Egletons:

This map is a beautiful 2v2 that appears to have been hamfisted into a 3v3. Eagletons the tourney 2v2 map is a really solid one and I think Gork had a great idea bringing it to EiR, but the conversion effort was a little lackluster. Unlike Neuville where Skaffa not only used an existing 2v2 map but actually blended it seamlessly into a much larger space, in this adaptation you unfortunately can trace the exact borders of the original map because it turns from a beautifully designed 2v2 into a crude extension of plain fields covered randomly in tank traps and other strangely and completely out of place debris. This "extended area" doesn't fit the atmosphere, aesthetic or style of the 2v2 map at all and it doesn't look right. Then the map just "ends" randomly with no off-map border or continuation of terrain.



Just aesthetic concerns to be sure, but I think Gork definitely has the talent to put a little more time in Eagletons and polish the adaptationbit more so that instead of it being the Eagletons tourney 2v2 map with extra space just kind of thrown on it haphazardly it could look like a consummate map like Neuville does.



TroamDeCaen:

I like the idea of this map and it looks very nice, there is just one big problem: the pathing is really, really messed up. I was in a 3v3 earlier where all people seemed to do all game is complain and struggle with it. I noticed it as well -- tanks and vehicles would take ungodly routes to get to places and get caught up on a million unseen obstacles in the center of the map (where the urban terrain is dense).

I like the idea of a clustered city but invisible areas should be more carefully blocked and unblocked

[chefarzt]

tankedit: Unrelated pics removed
Rly?

[tank130]

@ Wind:
http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=25565.msg450043#msg450043

[hans]

TroamDeCaen:

I like the idea of this map and it looks very nice, there is just one big problem: the pathing is really, really messed up. I was in a 3v3 earlier where all people seemed to do all game is complain and struggle with it. I noticed it as well -- tanks and vehicles would take ungodly routes to get to places and get caught up on a million unseen obstacles in the center of the map (where the urban terrain is dense).

I like the idea of a clustered city but invisible areas should be more carefully blocked and unblocked

so is a solution to just delete as an example all the antitank-obstacles? if yes me happy if not, well i need a reason why the pathing is fucked up and how to solve it.

i mean something like reduce the amount of that or sth. If the reason mostly is caused by antitank obstacles i need someone supporting that.

[tank130]

Hey guys, lets not get this thread discussing each map. It will just become to hard to follow.

Please take it to the threads for each map.

Thanks.

[tank130]

So here are some interesting stats.....

Since the last reset, 5108 games have been played. I assume that is completed games, because that is what the map list adds up to.

A massive 19% of those game were played on Neuville.
The next closest map is forest with about half of that - 10%.
The 3rd map is Tanteville with about half of that again - 5%.
All the rest of the maps plummet from there down to 2 or 3%

One thing is for sure - Neuville is the most played map in all of Eirr by a large margin.

Is this a problem? Hard to say. There is no doubt neuville is an awesome map. Removing it seems unfair if it is that popular.

However, removing it and the other top maps temporarily may give an opportunity for other dormant maps to get a fair chance at survival.

We have a number of people who appear to be willing to work on maps. Perhaps having other less popular maps getting played will give an opportunity for people to voice their concerns about those maps. We could then have some of our map guys amend those maps as needed.

If the map is unfixable, or essentially a complete rework, then we just remove it to make room for better maps to get played.

I do not see any real negative to temporarily removing the over played maps. Temporarily is the most important part.

We need some input on this decision please.

[chefarzt]

Saying Neuville is a good map coz its played most is like saying  Tom Clancy is a good writer.

[PonySlaystation]

It's not needed tank, everyone is playing egletons and dday.

[LeoPhone]

So here are some interesting stats.....

Since the last reset, 5108 games have been played. I assume that is completed games, because that is what the map list adds up to.

A massive 19% of those game were played on Neuville.
The next closest map is forest with about half of that - 10%.
The 3rd map is Tanteville with about half of that again - 5%.
All the rest of the maps plummet from there down to 2 or 3%

One thing is for sure - Neuville is the most played map in all of Eirr by a large margin.

Is this a problem? Hard to say. There is no doubt neuville is an awesome map. Removing it seems unfair if it is that popular.

However, removing it and the other top maps temporarily may give an opportunity for other dormant maps to get a fair chance at survival.

We have a number of people who appear to be willing to work on maps. Perhaps having other less popular maps getting played will give an opportunity for people to voice their concerns about those maps. We could then have some of our map guys amend those maps as needed.

If the map is unfixable, or essentially a complete rework, then we just remove it to make room for better maps to get played.

I do not see any real negative to temporarily removing the over played maps. Temporarily is the most important part.

We need some input on this decision please.

This is a terrible proposal.
the new maps aren't popular because they are bad. Neuville became popular because it is good. Before neuville, tanteville was no.1 played map. obviously that didn't stop skaffa from making a good map.

If you want maps that are just as popular as neuville... make good maps. Skaffa even made a thread explaining some of his thoughts when designing a map.

Neuville is only doing good for the new maps in EIR. it shows if a new map can compete with its quality or not. filtering out all the trash and motivating people to do their very best to make a better map.


One problem with new maps in EIR is the way they are picked tho. After people RTL & launch the game etc. That allows random assholes to cockblock the game because they don't want to play a specific map. Fix that problem by adding a map pick option in the launcher itself. Not by removing neuville.

[aeroblade56]

It's a good map and ill tell you why.

Neuville the main reason i play it is because for lower end pc's its a stable map, easy to load not to flashy and has a nice balanced gameplay.

And i agree with what LeoPhone says. Skaffa layed a very nice layout for his maps that he basis his designs on and i love everyone of his maps.

He has flanking, hes got cover, he has a objective.




 

[tank130]

This is a terrible proposal.
the new maps aren't popular because they are bad. Neuville became popular because it is good. Before neuville, tanteville was no.1 played map. obviously that didn't stop skaffa from making a good map.

If you want maps that are just as popular as neuville... make good maps. Skaffa even made a thread explaining some of his thoughts when designing a map.

Kind of a really horribly thought out reply Leo.... IMO

First of all, how can you say the maps are not being played. They have been released for 2 days.....
Second - I gave several examples of people refusing to play the maps even though they know nothing about them and have never tried them.
3rd - a perfect example of peoples refusal to try something new: I hosted a game with Ray in it. We played D-Day. He was pissed because the last time he looked at my thread, he saw the joking image of Neuville stamped on my map. He said he played it because he thought it was just neuville.
4th - have you played all of the new maps? How can you truly judge the map with out playing it? Obviously if it a complete cluster fuck, you can tell by screen shots. But that is not the case with these maps. The feed back is mostly small tweeks, not a cluster fuck.


Skaffa did not stop to make a good map and neither has anyone else, Should we all stop making maps because Neuville is number one? Should we only have one map because it is number one?

The problem is, no one is trying the new maps unless forced to. They are passing judgement with out even looking at it.

[LeoPhone]

The problem is, no one is trying the new maps unless forced to. They are passing judgement with out even looking at it.

Partly true, but neuville became popular in the same environment.

One problem with new maps in EIR is the way they are picked tho(kinda like what u said). After people RTL & launch the game etc. That allows random assholes to cockblock the game because they don't want to play a specific map. Fix that problem by adding a map pick option in the launcher itself. Not by removing neuville.

[tank130]

I have made massive efforts to clearly state that Neuville is a great map. I have made massive efforts to clearly state we should temporarily remove it to give other maps a chance.

Temporarily

If you look at the design of D-Day, you will see it follows Skaffas design philosophy EXACTLY

But, you have people that refuse to play it for retarded reasons.

@ Leo

Partly true, but neuville became popular in the same environment.

Not the same environment at all. We only had one decent map to choose from - Tanteville.

Now we have a couple of maps that are very similar in design to Neuville, but people are refusing to even try them.

One problem with new maps in EIR is the way they are picked tho. After people RTL & launch the game etc. That allows random assholes to cockblock the game because they don't want to play a specific map. Fix that problem by adding a map pick option in the launcher itself. Not by removing neuville.

I agree. But that solution is not going to happen before the end of the next century at the rate our production goes, so we need another solution.

Actually - how would that solution promote trying other maps? It doesn't.

[aeroblade56]

But that solution is not going to happen before the end of the next century at the rate our production goes, so we need another solution.

Dat feel when Lead mod/ money man doesn't believe in his staff.


On another note Neuville has great pathing and is flexible and doesn't really give one side a advantage over the other. All these new maps seem like they have alot of buildings and that alone fucks with pathing Not to mention effective flanking ability as your hampered by objects.

[hans]

sayin that all new maps arent popular because they are bad is totally unlogically. U cant judge from pictures abour certain maps. U have to play them. Unpopular maps are maps noone plays so how shell i judge? But i do have the feeling that most players judge from pictures and rumours of other players who only have judged from pictures too. Second, every new map cant be expected to be a bomb of briliancy because thats the same way unlogical. U make a map and after making a map there is the way to adjust the map via gameplaytests. And there i really see the problem.

On the one hand the editor of the map tries to do its best to make a map. On the other hand the players have to give their input to make the map being best to play on. Unfortunately the community or at least a greater part of it seems tobe very lazy helping out. It is alot easier to just play maps that are known for having good gameplay then testing and writing reviews for new maps.