Flak 88

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[clonetroopers]

Since the arty ability has been removed and it doesn't look like its will be making a return, to make it so blobs of rifles can't mass rape it I think it should get high explosive shells like the tiger.

[Hicks58]

Invest in an MG.

[terrapinsrock]

Lets see, theres Grens, Volks, KCH, MGs, mortars, etc

Be creative

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Invest in an MG.

This is no place for common sense hicks.

[clonetroopers]

Lets see, theres Grens, Volks, KCH, MGs, mortars, etc

Be creative

What is this blaspheme you speak of?

[nikomas]

No hicks, THIS.IS.BALANCE!

That aside, mg's and hidden goliaths... and there is that mass cloak t4 of trolling, hidden mp40 volks are fun.

[NightRain]

88 has returned to its previous use. Strictly Anti-tank from long range. It is a handy back up line to fall back to and most certainly is not a front line unit. The placement of 88 involves a certain strategy. If it is placed into a position where enemy infantry can capture it, it has been placed to a wrong spot. The key of 88 is support. Not main asset. Area of denial for armor. However, if enemy starts to waste resources to eliminate it say with a rush, start counting. 1 Sherman and 88 has paid itself back. 2 fully upgraded riflemen? Close, but that pays off more mun and same manpower cost.

To put it simple. 88 wont get overused, but don't be afraid of not seeing it anymore.

[Poppi]

Many games where 88s are sniping snipers and mgs and ATGs in addition to anti tank. Pretty bad ass still.

[ick312]

well the 88 is currently to weak, yes it does its job : blocking the allied tanks away. but its an too easy target for allied arty.
and all allied factions (except of airborne) have arty.

Should it get HE - well it has a quite bad accuracy against infantry. So HE would not make a big difference. It would be nice, but it wouldnt really improve the 88 performance, since the main problem of the 88 is not an offense one. The problem is the defense. Arty can easily kill it, infantry can rush it and the best tactic vs an 88 is to just switch flanks, then the defensiv player is screwed, cause he needs to keep at least an HMG there to protect the 88 against infantry rushes - So 11 pop are bound and they are missing on the other flank.

So how to solve this problem?
1. make that it can be repaired by a medic bunker
2. make it moveable - pack and unpack - high risk - high reward
3. (not necassary, but nice) give it useable veterancy. the extra sight is nice, but usually u use spotter. So here i would make an exception of the "no range buff rule" i would buff +10 range on vet 3

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Why dont you just get the top t4?
Heroic armor turns the crew into dam sink.

Cant remember exactly who it was that proved this(think it was lio) that 88s with heroic armor that you can destroy a stack with them.

Found it.
You cant watch it tough.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Well thats only vs Indirect fire right?

[Hicks58]

The change that was made to 88's was making it's cover directional, which is why arty rounds will make the crew chunky now but head on attacks still take a while to decrew it. Heavy cover and Heroic armour will make anything short of infantry assault weaponry take a painfully long time to decrew it.

The 88 is fine as it is. It does what you need it to do (Locking down parts of the map from armour), and it does it well. If you're worried about it being turned on you, either place it in a good position (Wide field of fire towards your enemy, and obstacles towards yourself) or keep a contingency unit to decrew/destroy the weapon just in case.

[hans]

Man, i love this idea:

just make it come with a truck that stays on field after contructing an 88 and let the truck be able to pack and unpack the 88 on map. DOnt tell me that this is hard to code isnt it.

it can be a tier 4 or tier 3



epic idea right?

[hans]

so epic  

edit: or let the truck be an tier 4 unlock that can do this

[TheIcelandicManiac]

well that works in OMG mod so i dont see why it shoulnt in EIR.

[Hicks58]

Mobile 100 range Flak 88 which consistently penetrates all but the Pershing. Nope, not seeing a problem at all with that. Surely nothing could go wrong in EiRR's environment.

[hans]

Mobile 100 range Flak 88 which consistently penetrates all but the Pershing. Nope, not seeing a problem at all with that. Surely nothing could go wrong in EiRR's environment.

silly?

the truck needs time to pack and unpack the 88, means its vulnerable like everytime u call it first on the field. second once u killed the truck that has the 88 with it, its gone.

What it adds is strategy tbh, and if its an unlock, why should it be so horrible? everytime u build a static 88, u avoid it, so it makes the game boring. this adds a good feature tbh.

PS: how about u consider all points instead of grabbing only the negative ones?

[Hicks58]

It single handedly removes the 88's greatest weakness, and why it has such incredible range in the first place. It's why deployable 17 pounders and Bofors don't have huge range - Because they can be repositioned.

It can be vulnerable during it's deployment all it wants, good players will make it work and it'll turn into an ATG creep on steroids.

You say it's a good feature, I say it'll just turn it into a souped up ATG rather than a piece of area denial.

This isn't OMG. Ever since the removal of repair bunkers, the change to limited repair kits and the switch over to Reinforcements, EiRR has been a fast paced game.

[hans]

It single handedly removes the 88's greatest weakness, and why it has such incredible range in the first place. It's why deployable 17 pounders and Bofors don't have huge range - Because they can be repositioned.

It can be vulnerable during it's deployment all it wants, good players will make it work and it'll turn into an ATG creep on steroids.

You say it's a good feature, I say it'll just turn it into a souped up ATG rather than a piece of area denial.

This isn't OMG. Ever since the removal of repair bunkers, the change to limited repair kits and the switch over to Reinforcements, EiRR has been a fast paced game.

okay, i do agree, that we kill the weakness of this unit. But one thing doesnt really work for me

"than a peice of area denial" "Eirr has been a fast paced game".

i guess iam not the only one who knows that an 88 doenst make the gameplay fast paced but rather the opposite. Tell me how an static long range unit that can t move supports fast paced? i dont see it.

So if we agree that an mobile 88 is too strong, we could reduce the range for example. But just in case that iam wrong i gonna make a poll.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=26553.0

[Hicks58]

You kill the range, you kill the uniqueness of the unit... Again, it becomes a glorified ATG.

In EiRR's current environment, it's used to lock down an area to make attacking it difficult, or to force your opponent into a different section of the map.

The 88 will slow down gameplay against people who have little idea how to counter it - A mobile 88 would do the exact same thing, or worse, it'd lead to such people getting outright crushed by a creeping 88 advance.

It serves a function, and it serves it's function well. Why are you trying to fix something that isn't broken?