Flak 88

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[Hicks58]

I recall doing fine with my 88's. I also recall not playing a game with you for a long time, making your comment on what I can or can't do pretty damned moot.

[Shabtajus]

i am just trying to keep Ick's point valid, and when u was using 88s it was just lol


so far 88s as 8 pop unit is a bit to lame. make it 7 pop tbh, atm when meta offers so many counters to 88s its just ez mode to capture it or destroy

[Hicks58]

...Still reading your posts in Zoidbergs voice. Still entertaining me no end.

[Shabtajus]

still u BT lead aint ya? Still u should be like PQ or Skaffa. Still dev behaves good here if i remember good?

[Hicks58]

I treat those as they treat me. One word summary of how you act would be "Cunt". So I can't say I'm too fussed how I come across to you.

[Shabtajus]

nah hicks u missed ma point man, i ment u being  like skaffa or PQ its all about good players being BT lead for a good game balance

[Hicks58]

Still dev behaves good here if i remember good?

its all about good players being BT lead

Er, what? These two points are totally unrelated, yet apparently I missed the first point somehow leading to this second one?

This is why I usually can't be arsed with conversations with you Shab. Need a fucking decryption algorithm just to figure out what the hell you are trying to communicate.

[Shabtajus]

lol ikr?

anyway u need play more games before barking on guys like ick 

[Hicks58]

Okey dokey Shab.

[XIIcorps]

The balance team does not need to be made up of "good" players.

It just needs to be made up of competent, active players with a decent sense of rationality.

[NightRain]

Hicks and shab bickering at one another, that is entertaining.


Very well.

The key to use 88s effectively is not to have it entirely situated in the front lines. Most people I've seen have put it right on the front line and had all units nearby it and treat it like a pak instead of using it what it truely is. It is a long range anti tank and infantry poker. It will shut down everything in that area because it has a pshycological effect. Don't get hit by the 88. It rings on everyone's head. In essence to defend a 88 properly you have to have 2 things at minium. A suppression unit, a spotter. That is up to 6 pop meaning that effective 88 is total of 14 pop. At minium it is 13. (Schwim 2 pop, bike 3 pop). As long as 88 has someone to spot for it, it will do its job. 88 also gives Axis a opportunity to lock one sector and force allies to switch to fight on another. This means it'll be pretty much 14 pop on one corner and 11 pop elsewhere. This means 88 can be a handicap or a useful unit, it entirely depends on the map. For instance neuville has 3 spots for 88. Left side where there is often open grounds. Center where there are some open ground, and lastly the right side, mostly open ground. Most people prefer right side because it can also take shots at the center where as left side does not.

Flak 36 weakness also hops in the failwagon in map selection. Opponents know you have 88s:" yes, lets play bocage, we know how good bocage is right? I haven't played it in months!"

Things like these will limit 88s usefulness and thus the arty ability on a 88 gave it flexibility to perform in maps where it would never serve as a potential unit of destruction, sure it would DO something, but for 8 pop you could do so much better. Flak 36's long range makes it excellent to force allies to stand their distance and prevents them from rofl vehicling your friends paks and infantry when your frontline collapsed. It makes a sturdy point to fall back to, always. Whoever uses heavier tanks will love you for having a 88 to back it up.
Umad pesky M18/Tet/M10/etc that is trying to circle a kt?

88s effectiveness is simply determinded by few factors, most of them has already been stated.

- Map, umad Allies playing Road To Carentan vs me?
- Positioning, next to a pak in frontline. 40-60 CoH meters from frontline. Not inside a building, pointing at a open field etc.
- Scouting, bike behind a building, volksgrenadiers the natural spotters.

Now when Officer buffs were nerf0red, 88 arty removed, I see that omniscience will become useful for 88 companies.

[hans]

Hicks and shab bickering at one another, that is entertaining.


Very well.

The key to use 88s effectively is not to have it entirely situated in the front lines. Most people I've seen have put it right on the front line and had all units nearby it and treat it like a pak instead of using it what it truely is. It is a long range anti tank and infantry poker. It will shut down everything in that area because it has a pshycological effect. Don't get hit by the 88. It rings on everyone's head. In essence to defend a 88 properly you have to have 2 things at minium. A suppression unit, a spotter. That is up to 6 pop meaning that effective 88 is total of 14 pop. At minium it is 13. (Schwim 2 pop, bike 3 pop). As long as 88 has someone to spot for it, it will do its job. 88 also gives Axis a opportunity to lock one sector and force allies to switch to fight on another. This means it'll be pretty much 14 pop on one corner and 11 pop elsewhere. This means 88 can be a handicap or a useful unit, it entirely depends on the map. For instance neuville has 3 spots for 88. Left side where there is often open grounds. Center where there are some open ground, and lastly the right side, mostly open ground. Most people prefer right side because it can also take shots at the center where as left side does not.

Flak 36 weakness also hops in the failwagon in map selection. Opponents know you have 88s:" yes, lets play bocage, we know how good bocage is right? I haven't played it in months!"

Things like these will limit 88s usefulness and thus the arty ability on a 88 gave it flexibility to perform in maps where it would never serve as a potential unit of destruction, sure it would DO something, but for 8 pop you could do so much better. Flak 36's long range makes it excellent to force allies to stand their distance and prevents them from rofl vehicling your friends paks and infantry when your frontline collapsed. It makes a sturdy point to fall back to, always. Whoever uses heavier tanks will love you for having a 88 to back it up.
Umad pesky M18/Tet/M10/etc that is trying to circle a kt?

88s effectiveness is simply determinded by few factors, most of them has already been stated.

- Map, umad Allies playing Road To Carentan vs me?
- Positioning, next to a pak in frontline. 40-60 CoH meters from frontline. Not inside a building, pointing at a open field etc.
- Scouting, bike behind a building, volksgrenadiers the natural spotters.

Now when Officer buffs were nerf0red, 88 arty removed, I see that omniscience will become useful for 88 companies.

1. ab drop behind lines, kill mg, steal 88 = profit
2. drop smoke, send flamers, kill mg, take 88 = profit
3. drop offmap on mg, move in with infantry, take 88 = profit

[PonySlaystation]

Just undo the nerf to directional cover that made the 88 so weak against artillery or change it's modifier against artillery. Immobile weapons shouldn't have the same low resistance to artillery that mobile weapons do. The idea behind the change was not to make artillery better but to make traditional counters like mortars, flamethrowers, grenades and flanking better against the 88. There is no way to make up for it's cost when it can be decrewed by a single artillery shell.

[NightRain]

1. ab drop behind lines, kill mg, steal 88 = profit
2. drop smoke, send flamers, kill mg, take 88 = profit
3. drop offmap on mg, move in with infantry, take 88 = profit

Now perform each of these strategies of yours in a real game. Theorycrafting is a never ending bicker.

[Shabtajus]

i would love to see it done on Speedy's or Mysth's 88s lol

good luck boy

[hans]

Now perform each of these strategies of yours in a real game. Theorycrafting is a never ending bicker.

you started with it, now you see how stupid this is

[ick312]

Just undo the nerf to directional cover that made the 88 so weak against artillery or change it's modifier against artillery. Immobile weapons shouldn't have the same low resistance to artillery that mobile weapons do. The idea behind the change was not to make artillery better but to make traditional counters like mortars, flamethrowers, grenades and flanking better against the 88. There is no way to make up for it's cost when it can be decrewed by a single artillery shell.

^+1

Now perform each of these strategies of yours in a real game. Theorycrafting is a never ending bicker.

i have seen all of them, before the def nerf and they work quite well.

[Mysthalin]

i would love to see it done on Speedy's or Mysth's 88s lol

good luck boy

He can do it and quite easily. It's not an issue though. He's 40-50 metres ahead of the frontline, completely cut off from support. My support volks wave will just get some free kills and re-man the 88. All is good, and they have one less offmap to use.