Patch R002

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[PonySlaystation]

I think it's awesome, finally engineers/pioneers can provide small fire support. They were good for placing defenses and the occasional recrew or flamethrower squad but not much more. Now they can place defenses and have a small support role. This has been my wish ever since I saw it in COH: Online.

[tank130]

I think it is an experiment that warrants a try. At first I thought why the hell are we screwing with this, but now that it has been explained it holds some merit.

When they upgrade with flame thrower, do they loose their vanilla rifle upgrades?

[GrayWolf]

I think it is an experiment that warrants a try. At first I thought why the hell are we screwing with this, but now that it has been explained it holds some merit.

When they upgrade with flame thrower, do they loose their vanilla rifle upgrades?

yes, it simply gives pio the MP40 + flame

[narref]

Nope, for their price and pop investment they are doing exactly what they need to, vanilla Engineers/Pioneers were hilariously situational.

Minesweeper squads are situational, pio/engies are not. They build wire/sandbags faster than other units and build tank traps which take long time but are still really useful, they can also cap.
They are not situational but if someone brings engies to the field but has no intention to build this defenses well it's like AmPM said, bringing an ATG when the enemy doesn't have armor.

Pios get durability, Engineers get potential damage. If it starts getting skewy then they'll be adjusted - balance is more fluid with less constraints now.

So how is that match-up balanced?
Flamme engies: 2 greaseguns 1 flamethwoer 165 HP pool.
Flamme pios: 1mp40 1 flamethrower 140 HP pool.

They are meant for combat only when upgraded. But instead it was the unupgraded versions the ones that were beeing looked upon for balance purposes of the units?

[XIIcorps]

Flame pios 2 mp40s 1 flamer 210 hp pool

[clonetroopers]

Why not give flame sappers stens, if pios get mp40's and engi's get m3 grease guns?

[XIIcorps]

Why not give flame sappers stens, if pios get mp40's and engi's get m3 grease guns?

because flame sappers in brens is OP.

Flame sappers aint ever get love. Just be costly t2 unlock forever alone dem feels.

Even tho assault pgrens are t3 they get flamer + 3 mp44's which really adds up on the dps scale.

Flame sappers is just 80mu flamer and 3 enfails

[clonetroopers]

since engi's and pios cant fight, let trebch busters fight!!!

[XIIcorps]

since engi's and pios cant fight, let trebch busters fight!!!

for cost should be all about CQB hence trench busters.
1x flamer
3x Shotgun

id even pay another 20mu for this.

[NightRain]

Are you people seriously crying why sappers don't get love?

Here's a moment to think.

Soldier armor 4 models. Think about it for a second. Soldier armor.

[XIIcorps]

Are you people seriously crying why sappers don't get love?

Here's a moment to think.

Soldier armor 4 models. Think about it for a second. Soldier armor.

I don't give a fuck about what the rgds say about soldier armor.
trench busters are utter shit for their price.
They get rofl stomped by anything, smoke from my experience does very little to benefit them.
And that's mortar, CCT and Typhoon smoke.

the desperately need some sort of love for a 5 pop 80mu 4 man flamer squad its highway robbery.
either buffing the unit or lowering the pool and mu cost.

[aeroblade56]

its the pool.

60pool on a 7 pool unit and then you add in officers talking a smooth pool then.

[Uglysori]

I don't give a fuck about what the rgds say about soldier armor.
trench busters are utter shit for their price.
They get rofl stomped by anything, smoke from my experience does very little to benefit them.
And that's mortar, CCT and Typhoon smoke.

the desperately need some sort of love for a 5 pop 80mu 4 man flamer squad its highway robbery.
either buffing the unit or lowering the pool and mu cost.

I call bullshit.  They do not get rofl stomped by everything. 60 health with soldier armor. They are the 2nd toughest flamer squad in the game even if u take into acct pio flamers with med kits.  Soldier armor takes 40% less dmg from MP40s, 40% less dmg from Gren Kars, 25% less dmg from lmgs, 25% less accuracy and 50% less dmg from hmgs. Soldier armor takes full dmg from MP44s and G43s.  Learn what you can and can not fight with soldier armor. 

If you can't beat a single pio squad with a trenchbuster squad you are doing something extremely wrong.  Since everything under sun according to you kills them maybe you should stop trying to use them.  Half your posts nowadays border on being disingenuous and misinformation.      

[NightRain]

I call bullshit.  They do not get rofl stomped by everything. 60 health with soldier armor. They are the 2nd toughest flamer squad in the game.

They are the toughest. Second is Flameassault squad with AB armor. Soldier armor is the second best armor in game behind Elite armor. They are the sturdiest you can get but if you expect to charge them head on, you are going to have a bad day.

[XIIcorps]

They are the toughest. Second is Flameassault squad with AB armor. Soldier armor is the second best armor in game behind Elite armor. They are the sturdiest you can get but if you expect to charge them head on, you are going to have a bad day.

I always use smoke with them, and I always seem to come out second best.
meh guess ill just stick with crocs, far simpler to use.

[Hicks58]

They could come down in MU to 55 like the other flamers, especially considering they don't have assault weaponry to back up the flamer. The pool could also come down by one or two.

Not changing their stats though unless absolutely necessary - 4 men, 60 HP, soldier armour, 1 flamer and 3 semi-decent rifles (It can push units down to the yellow health threshold to let it's flamer work more efficiently, and the rifles can let it do it at mid range).

People need to get a bit more creative in their application or throw them in amongst other units, they are definitely survivable enough. They can also be thrown in Bren Carriers which is a major advantage (I'll double check to see if launcher pre-loading is fixed and put it on the list if it aint).

[Uglysori]

They are the toughest. Second is Flameassault squad with AB armor. Soldier armor is the second best armor in game behind Elite armor. They are the sturdiest you can get but if you expect to charge them head on, you are going to have a bad day.

I didn't bother to truly break down the differences between the mitigation differences between AB armor and Soldier armor.  Soldier armor is superior but Assault flammens do have 20 more hp per man, 80 hp per squad advantage along with inherent sprint built into the platform via vet.  Officers throw things off but on a squad per squad basis I tend to think assault flammens are slightly tougher.  I haven't done the all the math though so you could be right on the Trenchbusters.  All pretty situational imo.  We can both agree Trenchbusters are tougher per squad than the other 2.

[XIIcorps]

Ok so maybe I jumped the gun on them, but their cost effectiveness is still screwy.

 Mu should come down to something lime 55-65.
pool also could use a 1-2 reduction.

[I2ay]

So if buying an MP40 and a flamethrower is 55 munis, and two greaseguns and a flamethrower is also 55 munis, why is just buying a flamethrower on a sapper unit suddenly 80 munis with the same shitty rifles that don't make sense to have as supporting weapons for a flamethrower?

[jackmccrack]

We need to give Trench Busters stens.

I'm only kidding.