[Allies] Comet

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[PonySlaystation]

The price of the Comet was increased from 400 (a seemingly random number) to 450 (another seemingly random number) and I don't see the reason behind this.

Compared to the Cromwell it has

Better accuracy (compared to the already high accuracy of the cromwell)
More health (106 to be precice, can take one more pak shot)
Slightly higher splash (not even noticeable)
Can penetrate medium tanks (akin to sherman upgun)

It's essentially an improved Cromwell and it's a good unit. But when does it become worth 230 fuel more than a Cromwell? A Slugger is 60 fuel more expensive than an Upgun Sherman. How can one Comet possibly outperform for two Cromwells?

[aeroblade56]

[nikomas]

You forgot the armor difference.

[aeroblade56]

Other than being able to reliably penetrate panthers i don't find them all that great. sherman armor vs cromwell doesnt feel like a huge difference.

[nikomas]

One example is that the PzIV's chance to penetrate sherman armor is roughly 50% at long range while being roughly 100% against cromwell armor, You'd notice quickly if it was given cromwell armor. Cromwell armor is so utterly terrible it's not even funny, aside from being slightly harder to hit.

Of course it wont help you much from heavy AT shots, but few things would. It does make a giant difference when fighting medium and light weapons however.

[XIIcorps]

The biggest thing to remember is disregard realism guys.
Despite the comet mounting a "17pdr".

Its closer to a 75mm HE in EIRR.

[EliteGren]

a 75mm HE doesn't regularly penetrate a panther

[Smokaz]

Other than being able to reliably penetrate panthers i don't find them all that great. sherman armor vs cromwell doesnt feel like a huge difference.

Maybe that's the thing though. If you have a firefly on the field, you cant hit infantry with it. It looks like David's comet could hit infantry. Penetrating a panther and hitting infantry is more flexible than a CCT + cromwell or a cct + firefly.

It's supposed to be a weaker pershing/tiger right? If you think about it that way, 400 fuel is pretty cheap.

And if it's beating panthers in a slugfest, its a lot of value?

Then again I haven't played much with the comet so I could be wrong.

[XIIcorps]

a 75mm HE doesn't regularly penetrate a panther

you missed the "17pdr" didnt you. It has comparable pen to a 17pdr with moar splash.

[EliteGren]

You put 17 pdr in quotation marks. Saying the comet gun "is close to a 75 HE" has to be one of the most retarded things I have ever read on this forum and directly implies it sucks balls for AT.

[Hicks58]

The 77mm gun the Comet uses (It's not a 17 pounder, come on people...) has the standard 90mm Pershing penetration tables.

It has 112.5 damage vs the Cromwell's 87.5.

Simply put, the gun is actually worth a damn vs armoured targets whereas the Cromwell can only engage armoured targets if you flank them.

Even better, it does this without losing ANY performance vs infantry (It's 0.6 inf accuracy was brought back up to the standard 0.75 when it's price hit 450).

You've got the mobility of a Cromwell, the penetration of a Pershing, the hitting power of near enough a Firefly (125) and the armour of a Sherman (Which is a VAST improvement over Cromwell), the health of a Panther, with the AI capacity of a Cromwell/Pershing bastard child. This is all before you throw a CCT or a fun doctrine like Ablative Armour at it.

There are units that are not performing. The Comet is NOT one of them.

[XIIcorps]

The 77mm gun the Comet uses (It's not a 17 pounder, come on people...)

I gotta do it, its bugging me.

The Comet mounted the OQF 77mm HV.
Still a 17pdr.....

[PonySlaystation]

The upgun sherman loses virtually no effectiveness against infantry when upgraded, the difference is so small it's not even noticeable.

More importantly, the upgun doesn't make it worthwhile to engage tanks. Because of it's fragile nature even on the off chance that you don't face off against marders and you actually face off one on one against a PzIV then it's still not a good idea because you'll lose most of your health. The upgun sherman will always be an anti-infantry unit with the added ability to deter and defend against vehicles.

The difference is that the price to upgun your sherman is 40 fuel. The price to go from upgun to Slugger is 60 fuel. The price to go from a Cromwell to a Comet is 230 fuel. I'm paying 230 fuel to upgun my Cromwell and gain 100 more health. That's a considerably worse investment, especially for a reward unit.

the health of a Panther ...  the hitting power of near enough a Firefly (125) ... the armour of a Sherman (Which is a VAST improvement over Cromwell)

The advantage of the Panther is it's strong armor and long range, the health is just 100 more than a Cromwell. The advantage of the firefly is it's ability to hit tank without taking any damage, something the fragile Comet cannot do. PzIVs, Marders, Paks all reliably penetrate Sherman armor. The only unit that can't do so is the LAHT and those things are only used for treadbreaker and focus fire.

[XIIcorps]

The upgun sherman loses virtually no effectiveness against infantry when upgraded, the difference is so small it's not even noticeable.

More importantly, the upgun doesn't make it worthwhile to engage tanks. Because of it's fragile nature even on the off chance that you don't face off against marders and you actually face off one on one against a PzIV then it's still not a good idea because you'll lose most of your health. The upgun sherman will always be an anti-infantry unit with the added ability to deter and defend against vehicles.

The difference is that the price to upgun your sherman is 40 fuel. The price to go from upgun to Slugger is 60 fuel. The price to go from a Cromwell to a Comet is 230 fuel. I'm paying 230 fuel to upgun my Cromwell and gain 100 more health. That's a considerably worse investment, especially for a reward unit.

The advantage of the Panther is it's strong armor and long range, the health is just 100 more than a Cromwell. The advantage of the firefly is it's ability to hit tank without taking any damage, something the fragile Comet cannot do. PzIVs, Marders, Paks all reliably penetrate Sherman armor. The only unit that can't do so is the LAHT and those things are only used for treadbreaker and focus fire.

Actually the amount of points raised here are outstanding, the same issues could be raised for the Achillies.

Tho i wont argue that the Comet isnt good, its outstanding. but given ponies points one does have to question its cost given its stats.

[nikomas]

Yet again ignoring the huge armor increase and underselling the penetration increase over the cromwell I see.

The slugger cannot fight infantry anymore so that comparison is invalid, it shoud be compared to dedicated AT units, such as going from an M10 to a Slugger, or comparing it to the Firefly, it has zero relation in role and function to a sherman or comet. The next step up from the sherman would be the Jumbo and do remember how much you are paying for an armor upgrade if you want to make comparisons like that.

[PonySlaystation]

I didn't ignore the armor difference. I stated clearly that while the Cromwell armor is not so good, the Sherman armor isn't much better. A PzIV can penetrate it reliably and so can everything higher, paks, schrecks, marders, most of the AT units you'll be facing.

[XIIcorps]

I didn't ignore the armor difference. I stated clearly that while the Cromwell armor is not so good, the Sherman armor isn't much better. A PzIV can penetrate it reliably and so can everything higher, paks, schrecks, marders, most of the AT units you'll be facing.

ALL AT youll be facing, LVATHT and boys luft AT dont really count at AT but rather LVAT.


Also Comet dont have Flank Speed. That could be interesting at maybe Vet........

[PonySlaystation]

Also Comet dont have Flank Speed. That could be interesting at maybe Vet........

Wrong. It does get flank speed at vet1 like the Cromwell.

[XIIcorps]

Wrong. It does get flank speed at vet1 like the Cromwell.

Well fuck me sideways so it does, Ninja buff nikomas/hicks

[nikomas]

I didn't ignore the armor difference. I stated clearly that while the Cromwell armor is not so good, the Sherman armor isn't much better. A PzIV can penetrate it reliably and so can everything higher, paks, schrecks, marders, most of the AT units you'll be facing.

Isn't much better? You really should have a look at the stats, going from a 100% to a 50% chance to get penetrated by a PzIV is hardly insignificant, while at it how could you call 50% reliable? That's quite literally a coin toss.