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[Allies] Comet
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Topic: [Allies] Comet (Read 7025 times)
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PonySlaystation
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136
[Allies] Comet
«
on:
May 14, 2014, 01:34:48 pm »
The price of the Comet was increased from 400 (a seemingly random number) to 450 (another seemingly random number) and I don't see the reason behind this.
Compared to the Cromwell it has
Better accuracy (compared to the already high accuracy of the cromwell)
More health (106 to be precice, can take one more pak shot)
Slightly higher splash (not even noticeable)
Can penetrate medium tanks (akin to sherman upgun)
It's essentially an improved Cromwell and it's a good unit. But when does it become worth 230 fuel more than a Cromwell? A Slugger is 60 fuel more expensive than an Upgun Sherman. How can one Comet possibly outperform for two Cromwells?
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Sharks are not monsters Henley, they are cute, cuddly and misunderstood. They love humans. sometimes they love TOO much. They love people so much that sometimes their kisses separate people into two flailing pieces which are consumed by other sharks in a frenzy of peace and joy.
aeroblade56
Development
Posts: 3871
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #1 on:
May 14, 2014, 01:41:37 pm »
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Quote from: Hicks58 on January 08, 2016, 05:47:37 pm
You are welcome to your opinion.
You are also welcome to be wrong.
nikomas
Shameless Perv
Posts: 4286
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #2 on:
May 14, 2014, 02:04:19 pm »
You forgot the armor difference.
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"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they've tried everything else."
Quote from: PonySlaystation
The officer is considerably better than a riflemen squad at carrying weapons.
Officers have good accuracy so they will hit most targets.
aeroblade56
Development
Posts: 3871
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #3 on:
May 14, 2014, 02:29:31 pm »
Other than being able to reliably penetrate panthers i don't find them all that great. sherman armor vs cromwell doesnt feel like a huge difference.
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nikomas
Shameless Perv
Posts: 4286
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #4 on:
May 14, 2014, 02:50:46 pm »
One example is that the PzIV's chance to penetrate sherman armor is roughly 50% at long range while being roughly 100% against cromwell armor, You'd notice quickly if it was given cromwell armor. Cromwell armor is so utterly terrible it's not even funny, aside from being slightly harder to hit.
Of course it wont help you much from heavy AT shots, but few things would. It does make a giant difference when fighting medium and light weapons however.
«
Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 02:53:09 pm by nikomas
»
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XIIcorps
Donator
Posts: 2558
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #5 on:
May 14, 2014, 04:17:06 pm »
The biggest thing to remember is disregard realism guys.
Despite the comet mounting a "17pdr".
Its closer to a 75mm HE in EIRR.
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Quote from: Heartmann on December 03, 2013, 11:20:45 am
some of My kids i work with shower me
EliteGren
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6106
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #6 on:
May 14, 2014, 04:20:18 pm »
a 75mm HE doesn't regularly penetrate a panther
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Quote from: deadbolt on December 30, 2010, 09:14:16 am
i prefer to no u
Quote from: deadbolt on July 30, 2012, 08:08:48 am
Don't knock it til uve tried it bitchface, this isn't anything like salads version. Besides u said a semois conversion would never work, now look that's the most played map, ohgodwhy.jpg r u map lead
Smokaz
Honoured Member
Posts: 11418
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #7 on:
May 14, 2014, 04:20:46 pm »
Quote from: aeroblade56 on May 14, 2014, 02:29:31 pm
Other than being able to reliably penetrate panthers i don't find them all that great. sherman armor vs cromwell doesnt feel like a huge difference.
Maybe that's the thing though. If you have a firefly on the field, you cant hit infantry with it. It looks like David's comet could hit infantry. Penetrating a panther and hitting infantry is more flexible than a CCT + cromwell or a cct + firefly.
It's supposed to be a weaker pershing/tiger right? If you think about it that way, 400 fuel is pretty cheap.
And if it's beating panthers in a slugfest, its a lot of value?
Then again I haven't played much with the comet so I could be wrong.
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XIIcorps
Donator
Posts: 2558
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #8 on:
May 14, 2014, 04:24:28 pm »
Quote from: EliteGren on May 14, 2014, 04:20:18 pm
a 75mm HE doesn't regularly penetrate a panther
you missed the "17pdr" didnt you. It has comparable pen to a 17pdr with moar splash.
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EliteGren
EIR Veteran
Posts: 6106
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #9 on:
May 14, 2014, 04:34:20 pm »
You put 17 pdr in quotation marks. Saying the comet gun "is close to a 75 HE" has to be one of the most retarded things I have ever read on this forum and directly implies it sucks balls for AT.
«
Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 04:43:04 pm by EliteGren
»
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Hicks58
Development
Posts: 5343
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #10 on:
May 14, 2014, 04:51:34 pm »
The 77mm gun the Comet uses (It's not a 17 pounder, come on people...) has the standard 90mm Pershing penetration tables.
It has 112.5 damage vs the Cromwell's 87.5.
Simply put, the gun is actually worth a damn vs armoured targets whereas the Cromwell can only engage armoured targets if you flank them.
Even better, it does this without losing ANY performance vs infantry (It's 0.6 inf accuracy was brought back up to the standard 0.75 when it's price hit 450).
You've got the mobility of a Cromwell, the penetration of a Pershing, the hitting power of near enough a Firefly (125) and the armour of a Sherman (Which is a VAST improvement over Cromwell), the health of a Panther, with the AI capacity of a Cromwell/Pershing bastard child. This is all before you throw a CCT or a fun doctrine like Ablative Armour at it.
There are units that are not performing. The Comet is NOT one of them.
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Quote from: brn4meplz on November 05, 2012, 10:45:05 am
I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
Quote from: Mysthalin on March 27, 2014, 04:57:09 pm
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
XIIcorps
Donator
Posts: 2558
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #11 on:
May 14, 2014, 09:30:26 pm »
Quote from: Hicks58 on May 14, 2014, 04:51:34 pm
The 77mm gun the Comet uses (It's not a 17 pounder, come on people...)
I gotta do it, its bugging me.
The Comet mounted the OQF 77mm HV.
Still a 17pdr.....
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PonySlaystation
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #12 on:
May 15, 2014, 03:08:14 am »
The upgun sherman loses virtually no effectiveness against infantry when upgraded, the difference is so small it's not even noticeable.
More importantly, the upgun doesn't make it worthwhile to engage tanks. Because of it's fragile nature even on the off chance that you don't face off against marders and you actually face off one on one against a PzIV then it's still not a good idea because you'll lose most of your health. The upgun sherman will always be an anti-infantry unit with the added ability to deter and defend against vehicles.
The difference is that the price to upgun your sherman is 40 fuel. The price to go from upgun to Slugger is 60 fuel. The price to go from a Cromwell to a Comet is 230 fuel. I'm paying 230 fuel to upgun my Cromwell and gain 100 more health. That's a considerably worse investment, especially for a reward unit.
Quote from: Hicks58 on May 14, 2014, 04:51:34 pm
the health of a Panther ... the hitting power of near enough a Firefly (125) ... the armour of a Sherman (Which is a VAST improvement over Cromwell)
The advantage of the Panther is it's strong armor and long range, the health is just 100 more than a Cromwell. The advantage of the firefly is it's ability to hit tank without taking any damage, something the fragile Comet cannot do. PzIVs, Marders, Paks all reliably penetrate Sherman armor. The only unit that can't do so is the LAHT and those things are only used for treadbreaker and focus fire.
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XIIcorps
Donator
Posts: 2558
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #13 on:
May 15, 2014, 03:16:50 am »
Quote from: PonySlaystation on May 15, 2014, 03:08:14 am
The upgun sherman loses virtually no effectiveness against infantry when upgraded, the difference is so small it's not even noticeable.
More importantly, the upgun doesn't make it worthwhile to engage tanks. Because of it's fragile nature even on the off chance that you don't face off against marders and you actually face off one on one against a PzIV then it's still not a good idea because you'll lose most of your health. The upgun sherman will always be an anti-infantry unit with the added ability to deter and defend against vehicles.
The difference is that the price to upgun your sherman is 40 fuel. The price to go from upgun to Slugger is 60 fuel. The price to go from a Cromwell to a Comet is 230 fuel. I'm paying 230 fuel to upgun my Cromwell and gain 100 more health. That's a considerably worse investment, especially for a reward unit.
The advantage of the Panther is it's strong armor and long range, the health is just 100 more than a Cromwell. The advantage of the firefly is it's ability to hit tank without taking any damage, something the fragile Comet cannot do. PzIVs, Marders, Paks all reliably penetrate Sherman armor. The only unit that can't do so is the LAHT and those things are only used for treadbreaker and focus fire.
Actually the amount of points raised here are outstanding, the same issues could be raised for the Achillies.
Tho i wont argue that the Comet isnt good, its outstanding. but given ponies points one does have to question its cost given its stats.
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nikomas
Shameless Perv
Posts: 4286
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #14 on:
May 15, 2014, 03:27:25 am »
Yet again ignoring the huge armor increase and underselling the penetration increase over the cromwell I see.
The slugger cannot fight infantry anymore so that comparison is invalid, it shoud be compared to dedicated AT units, such as going from an M10 to a Slugger, or comparing it to the Firefly, it has zero relation in role and function to a sherman or comet. The next step up from the sherman would be the Jumbo and do remember how much you are paying for an armor upgrade if you want to make comparisons like that.
«
Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 03:28:56 am by nikomas
»
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PonySlaystation
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #15 on:
May 15, 2014, 03:58:27 am »
I didn't ignore the armor difference. I stated clearly that while the Cromwell armor is not so good, the Sherman armor isn't much better. A PzIV can penetrate it reliably and so can everything higher, paks, schrecks, marders, most of the AT units you'll be facing.
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XIIcorps
Donator
Posts: 2558
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #16 on:
May 15, 2014, 05:14:05 am »
Quote from: PonySlaystation on May 15, 2014, 03:58:27 am
I didn't ignore the armor difference. I stated clearly that while the Cromwell armor is not so good, the Sherman armor isn't much better. A PzIV can penetrate it reliably and so can everything higher, paks, schrecks, marders, most of the AT units you'll be facing.
ALL AT youll be facing, LVATHT and boys luft AT dont really count at AT but rather LVAT.
Also Comet dont have Flank Speed. That could be interesting at maybe Vet........
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PonySlaystation
EIR Veteran
Posts: 4136
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #17 on:
May 15, 2014, 05:33:39 am »
Quote from: XIIcorps on May 15, 2014, 05:14:05 am
Also Comet dont have Flank Speed. That could be interesting at maybe Vet........
Wrong. It does get flank speed at vet1 like the Cromwell.
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XIIcorps
Donator
Posts: 2558
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #18 on:
May 15, 2014, 05:53:59 am »
Quote from: PonySlaystation on May 15, 2014, 05:33:39 am
Wrong. It does get flank speed at vet1 like the Cromwell.
Well fuck me sideways so it does, Ninja buff nikomas/hicks
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nikomas
Shameless Perv
Posts: 4286
Re: [Allies] Comet
«
Reply #19 on:
May 15, 2014, 06:32:58 am »
Quote from: PonySlaystation on May 15, 2014, 03:58:27 am
I didn't ignore the armor difference. I stated clearly that while the Cromwell armor is not so good, the Sherman armor isn't much better. A PzIV can penetrate it reliably and so can everything higher, paks, schrecks, marders, most of the AT units you'll be facing.
Isn't much better? You really should have a look at the stats, going from a 100% to a 50% chance to get penetrated by a PzIV is hardly insignificant, while at it how could you call 50% reliable? That's quite literally a coin toss.
«
Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 06:35:46 am by nikomas
»
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