Re-Balance Offmaps, Smoke and misc abilities

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[nikomas]

You know wind, you're really not the one to call people out on poor research when up until a few weeks ago you still did not know the CCT increases weapon range... And then you don't even bother to check modifiers.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself and all that.
(And by that last question, you didn't know that weapon crews are just standard infantry either I guess)

[Hicks58]

Is that a modifier that applies to support weapons as well (the main thing a mortar is meant to fight)? Do any other mortars have a similar modifier?

It applies to ALL infantry based armour types, meaning it'll do 44 damage to whatever infantry it hits within the 2m short range splash.

The US Mortar also has this with 20 damage and a 2x damage mod vs all infantry armour besides Airborne (Standard 1x) and Soldier (1.75x)

WM Mortar has no damage mods towards any infantry besides Heroic where it has 0.7x

The PE Mortar Halftrack appears to be a copy-pasta of the WM Mortar.

[aeroblade56]

i suppose the WM mortar has the biggest splash and longest range ?

[TheWindCriesMary]

You know wind, you're really not the one to call people out on poor research when up until a few weeks ago you still did not know the CCT increases weapon range... And then you don't even bother to check modifiers.

The difference between me and you is, when I'm wrong I admit I'm wrong. When you're wrong you go afk or argue harder.

Everyone in this thread has been wrong on dozens of things at one point or another in their time arguing balance on this forum. What matters is how we behave when we are.

So what we know:

CW mortar has highest damage (with modifier) versus enemy infantry of any mortar. I was completely wrong on that, as I thought it was just 22.

With that being said, CW is still almost completely absent from the current metagame. There's a reason for that. We can't just isolate its base damage and ROF and go "it's a great mortar!" because there are far more variables at play in a units performance. Clearly the most telling stat of all is how often they're used.

[nikomas]

We haven't argued about something that one can be objectively wrong about for a while, my point was that you are extremely condescending towards people making certain errors while making other errors yourself.

Anyway, I've been doing the brit thing since long before the "current" meta and I thought it was quite broke even back then.

[Hicks58]

i suppose the WM mortar has the biggest splash and longest range ?

No.

CW Mortar has the best short range splash at 2.0 (Every other has 1.5)

WM/PE Mortar has best long range splash at 7 (CW/US have 6) but long range splash is the least important considering it does 0.5 damage

Medium range splash is the same for all at 3.5.

Range tree goes as follows:

US/WM 85 range (Yes, the US Mortar's range got put up *Ages* ago to the same as the WM one, that happened in patch R001 back in Feb)
CW 75 range
PE 70 range

[TheWindCriesMary]

Thanks for the stats hicks. Do you think it might be beneficial to lower the damage/rof of the brit mortar and improve its range?

[NightRain]

Wind, the reason you do not see MGs from the British is because they have better solution. Bren blob with Officers for instance. Sure overall it costs several times more but it is more combat effective and easier to use. The British Vickers by no means is terrible, it is actually quite good for one the crew is soldier armor and carries Lee enfields (Unlike US with M1 carbines and WM with pio MP40s(?)). Soldier armor gives a lot more survivable crew for the vickers. I currently cannot check RGDs which is a shame but no matter.

Back to the original point. MGs costs more manpower but little munition in exchange for effective platform at anti infantry for low pop. Mostly people don't use MGs because they go for quanity. i.e extra units for the cost of mg to do combat. Reason to this isn't because MG is anyway worse, there are just different alternatives for it. Same reason why mortar is rarely used (mostly due to its shorter range). The only true problem for that mortar is when there is no shotblockers, but that is fault of the positioning OR map ( Road to Carentan)

Aero. For 2 pop and fuel you gain a unit that drops a creeping smoke barrage. Ultimately what someone used with flamesappers. Additionally it can be used with handgrenades in RCA. By no means 2 pop that deploys smoke and scouts is not a terrible unit like you make it sound. Once it has used its smoke barrages you can still use it to buff vehicles in your company or call it off, that is up to you to decide at that point.  On top of it, it is the best smoke deploying unit there is (even if for two times).

[TheWindCriesMary]

Wind, the reason you do not see MGs from the British is because they have better solution. Bren blob with Officers for instance. Sure overall it costs several times more but it is more combat effective and easier to use. The British Vickers by no means is terrible, it is actually quite good for one the crew is soldier armor and carries Lee enfields (Unlike US with M1 carbines and WM with pio MP40s(?)). Soldier armor gives a lot more survivable crew for the vickers. I currently cannot check RGDs which is a shame but no matter.

I think where I disagree here is that the bren blob with officers doesn't offer suppression, and most brit players don't use bren blobs. I'm the only one I know who uses brens in any sizeable amount at the moment. Bren blobs haven't appeared in the current metagame outside my RCA company for several months.

Back to the original point. MGs costs more manpower but little munition in exchange for effective platform at anti infantry for low pop. Mostly people don't use MGs because they go for quanity. i.e extra units for the cost of mg to do combat. Reason to this isn't because MG is anyway worse, there are just different alternatives for it. Same reason why mortar is rarely used (mostly due to its shorter range). The only true problem for that mortar is when there is no shotblockers, but that is fault of the positioning OR map ( Road to Carentan)

You will be able to speak to the numbers better, or Hicks, but the brit MG seems extremely poor at anti infantry. That is to say, outside of suppression, its killing power seems low. It just doesn't seem to fill the anti inf role versus just being a supression platform.

[aeroblade56]

i use recon tommie blobs. and most others use scoped enfields not brens.

[Hicks58]

The British Vickers by no means is terrible, it is actually quite good for one the crew is soldier armor

*Insert OBJECTION.jpg here*

British support crews all have 55 HP and infantry armour.

[NightRain]

*Insert OBJECTION.jpg here*

British support crews all have 55 HP and infantry armour.

Hmm, you sure about that hicks? 100% positive? (unable to check at given time) Checked and all?

[Hicks58]

Yes Speedy. 100% positive, because I don't go out of my way to correct people unless I HAVE checked.

[NightRain]

Yes Speedy. 100% positive, because I don't go out of my way to correct people unless I HAVE checked.

In that case them having a infantry armor + durability becomes slightly more of a moot point at this time. (which one did the commando hmg team have?). Hmm hmm. Can we get stats from the hmg team performance compared to the US one Hicksy?

[Hicks58]

Go open up Corsix.

[NightRain]

Go open up Corsix.

I'll do it once I get home, meanwhile Imma go sauna and dip myself in lake with a beer. Be a good balance mod and do a lil calculation. Myst ain't around atm to do it for us.

I do believe and stay in my belief that the british MG is better than the US variant. Better side arms. The most best bit of it comes with its suppression fire, even if it is doctrine option it is a Tier 2 only but I leave that away in arguments as it isn't valid due to being a doctrine option.

[Mister Schmidt]

That'll do ladies