[WM/CW/US] Medium Tanks

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[TheWindCriesMary]

OFF TOPIC: Can a mod delete all these off topic posts about Nightrain and his posting habits about Myst from this legit balance thread? People should know better and save that shit for PMs.

ON TOPIC:

Again, agreeing with Tig and Jack (as they reiterated the original post at the top of the thread): heavies serve their role to a tee in EiR (damage soak, heavy fire power, line breaking, resilience etc.) and so do LVs (mobility, flanking) but medium tanks don't manage to do the same (infantry support, being the happy middle ground between the two former).

They need our love and support to be rehabilitated in the current metagame.

[CrazyWR]

I would venture that the way to do that is to raise the amount of resources, allowing for more fuel, more infantry for mediums to take out, while making the loss of one not as much of a hit.  Also, Raising fuel prices on super heavies(TA and SP especially need to be at least 1000) will allow for much more room for medium tanks to make an impact.

[TheWindCriesMary]

But if lvs like a t17, stag and greyhound already outperform mediums wouldn't raising the total fuel just exacerbate the lv spam issue?

[GrayWolf]

But if lvs like a t17, stag and greyhound already outperform mediums

Where?! They have different roles man. I haven't seen any of those outperforming Sherman in tank hunting.

[Shabtajus]

Where?! They have different roles man. I haven't seen any of those outperforming Sherman in tank hunting.

garry elaborate pls what do you have inside ya head? is it called brain? if so, use em

you think lv user just sit in front of tank and trade shots? lv  has lolCanthitMeNgr armour / speed and IF microed properly can beat p4 or stug without problems, trust me i did it vs axis tanks and also experienced that on my axis ass too. Its not about killing tank with lv its about harassing em as well, coming in, some pot shots and running away, annoying as fuck.

Meanwhile sherman can go to corner and just dream about a job that lv can do. Not to mention how cool is to spam lvs and sit on flanks with some fast atacks and really fast reaction to kill back cappers. Any other medium tank in current meta cant do so much work as lvs do.

 If ya have brain ya aint gonna send medium tank alone on flanks to check for back cappers ya need drag all dat circus with tank like atg, scout, riflemen and so on.

[GrayWolf]

So shab just wanted to tell, that you can kill a medium with lv SPAM (Cost more than medium tank), when following :

- User is a retard
- User is afk
- User is rushing a medium right into enemy spawn
- User doesn't know that he can turn tank and turret simultaneously (hard word)
- User is having just a medium tank, no ATG, no handheld AT, no any other thing. Also he has no teammates, cause teamplay is for noobs.

[Shabtajus]

So shab just wanted to tell, that you can kill a medium with lv SPAM (Cost more than medium tank), when following :

- User is a retard
- User is afk
- User is rushing a medium right into enemy spawn
- User doesn't know that he can turn tank and turret simultaneously (hard word)
- User is having just a medium tank, no ATG, no handheld AT, no any other thing. Also he has no teammates, cause teamplay is for noobs.

hey garry not dat long enough i beat yo p4 with 3xm8s, ya raged, so tell me what option ya choose from dat list ya posted haha

[nikomas]

Two upgun pumas will  defeat a sherman or cromwell, two hotches will slaughter a sherman or cromwell, two stuarts will butcher a PZIV and so on and if the results are different either the LV user is an idiot, or the MT user is a pr0... Probably a combination of them.

That's how it is.

[TheWindCriesMary]

garry elaborate pls what do you have inside ya head? is it called brain? if so, use em

you think lv user just sit in front of tank and trade shots? lv  has lolCanthitMeNgr armour / speed and IF microed properly can beat p4 or stug without problems, trust me i did it vs axis tanks and also experienced that on my axis ass too. Its not about killing tank with lv its about harassing em as well, coming in, some pot shots and running away, annoying as fuck.

Meanwhile sherman can go to corner and just dream about a job that lv can do. Not to mention how cool is to spam lvs and sit on flanks with some fast atacks and really fast reaction to kill back cappers. Any other medium tank in current meta cant do so much work as lvs do.

 If ya have brain ya aint gonna send medium tank alone on flanks to check for back cappers ya need drag all dat circus with tank like atg, scout, riflemen and so on.

This managed to be funny and painfully accurate.

[CrazyWR]

But if lvs like a t17, stag and greyhound already outperform mediums wouldn't raising the total fuel just exacerbate the lv spam issue?

This is certainly a problem.  I would say this: If medium tanks are truly that useless, just keep raising the price on light vehicles until things seem to balance out.  If price were completely equal, would you rather have a p4/sherman or a puma/m8/t17?  And if the answer is the light vehicle, maybe we need to seriously re-evaluate the fuel cost on LV's?

[aeroblade56]

i would still take a t17 over a sherman if it were similarly priced.

[Batgirl]

I think there are good points in the thread.

Compared to vcoh the medium tanks perform badly vs all the at-heavy infantry - you can heal the infantry,  but cant repair the medium tanks and every hit more or less penetrates and theres a lot of at on the troops compared to single shreks etc on vcoh.

How about giving the medium tanks a bit faster repair and/or 2 repairs automatically? (make extra repair kit effect only the other stuff) Something like this would reward using them more. Or the medium tanks could be more difficult to hit by at troops from the distance - now when youre running from the at gun some at squad will just snipe your medium tank and too often hit/penetrate.

Well anyway I wanna see the med tanks more and the biggies and the supershitties less

[aeroblade56]

Give mediums 20X small repairs.

[XIIcorps]

Give Cromwell flank speed back
or buff its received acc as a base line.

Also mediums are heavily featured in the current meta, its only endgame do they see a steep decline in use.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Also mediums are heavily featured in the current meta, its only endgame do they see a steep decline in use.

This isn't very accurate at all. You're going to be extremely hard pressed to find any replays to share of Shermans or Cromwells earning their cost, let alone doing well or  earning anywhere near the same results of LVs in the current meta.

If I'm lucky I'll see maybe 1 or 2 shermans show up in a 3v3 containing 2 or more US players, or a single crom show up in a game with 1 or more brits. P4s are a bit more common but aren't typically doing very much.

[Hicks58]

Then ideally, shouldn't you get us some replays of a supposedly high quality player using Shermans/Cromwells and how they are faring in the current environment, be it good or bad?

[XIIcorps]

This isn't very accurate at all. You're going to be extremely hard pressed to find any replays to share of Shermans or Cromwells earning their cost, let alone doing well or  earning anywhere near the same results of LVs in the current meta.

If I'm lucky I'll see maybe 1 or 2 shermans show up in a 3v3 containing 2 or more US players, or a single crom show up in a game with 1 or more brits. P4s are a bit more common but aren't typically doing very much.

I never said they were earning their cost, but every 2v2 or 3v3 ive played there has been atleast 4-6 mediums.

I for one will be running crom coy as soon as pps allow for it.

but I agree with hicks, whilst we may not have tangible evidence to prove you wrong, your also using sheer conjecture to disprove us.

edit: while we are on the subject, your comet seems to be faring well, for a medium.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Then ideally, shouldn't you get us some replays of a supposedly high quality player using Shermans/Cromwells and how they are faring in the current environment, be it good or bad?

I couldn't name a single high quality player using shermans or cromwells or P4s at the moment. My case is literally he cannot find a replay because decent players aren't using these units -- they are decent because they pick units that can help them win.

Shab
Skaffa
Bolt
Me
Korps
Darsin

These are the most effective players in the mod in the current meta game and none use cromwells or shermans at the moment. All of them will tell you they're junk and not worth fielding. And I really like cromwells too, but they just aren't viable.

It's a serious tragedy.

[CrazyWR]

a 2v2 or 3v3 with 4-6 mediums is 1 per player.  That is hardly a commonly featured unit.  And using a reward unit as an example is not a good one.

I think based on aero's post that perhaps we need to look at significantly jacking up the price of light vehicles...as well as increasing the overall resources.

[TheWindCriesMary]

Xii Corps I cannot tell if you're trying to troll with your recent posts or not.

This entire thread SPECIFICALLY mentions P4s, Cromwells and Shermans as the subject.

I think many have noticed that, in the current metagame, traditional medium tanks are not well represented nor very effective for their cost or intended purpose.

By these I mean:
P4
Sherman (upgun and normal)
Cromwell

Why are you making statements like "your comet seems to be doing well".

Please stop trolling balance forum tbh.