Balance? Balance.

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[omgNiko]

Like Smokaz using tank reapers, and so many before him- Shab has shown the current meta of players that the Super Pershing is broken. It isn't a legitimate World War II unit. Why can't I get a Centurion Main Battle Tank?! The Tiger Ace is not nearly as imposing since it cannot move and shoot while repairing using the armour doctrine.

This thread is a petition to have the Super Pershing removed as a unit. Just post your names and if you are for or against its removal as a playable unit.

[TheArea]

If it bleeds, we can kill it.

SP must go.

Anyone have the replay?

[XIIcorps]

Like Smokaz using tank reapers, and so many before him- Shab has shown the current meta of players that the Super Pershing is broken. It isn't a legitimate World War II unit. Why can't I get a Centurion Main Battle Tank?! The Tiger Ace is not nearly as imposing since it cannot move and shoot while repairing using the armour doctrine.

This thread is a petition to have the Super Pershing removed as a unit. Just post your names and if you are for or against its removal as a playable unit.

EIRR isnt a historic mod you numpty.

If you think the SP is broken now you obviously dont recall the flank speed APCR SP of old.

And i still think your headbutting the wall in terms of balance, there is no team or head of balance.

[tank130]

If you think the SP is broken now you obviously dont recall the flank speed APCR SP of old.

And i still think your headbutting the wall in terms of balance, there is no team or head of balance.

Bringing up how broken another unit may have been in the past is irrelevant really. Just because something was broken before doesn't mean it's OK for something else to be broken now - but I digress.

There is something wrong with the SP - what it takes to fix it is certainly up for debate and has been debated to death already. What pisses me off is something being in the mod that is clearly broken, but no one is available to make the decision on how to fix it.

It should be removed until such time as someone has the correct fix and can implement it. I believe I can just disable it in the SQL, but I am not positive on that. I also do not know how to do it, but I can probably find out.

[GORKHALI]

Bringing up how broken another unit may have been in the past is irrelevant really. Just because something was broken before doesn't mean it's OK for something else to be broken now - but I digress.

There is something wrong with the SP - what it takes to fix it is certainly up for debate and has been debated to death already. What pisses me off is something being in the mod that is clearly broken, but no one is available to make the decision on how to fix it.

It should be removed until such time as someone has the correct fix and can implement it. I believe I can just disable it in the SQL, but I am not positive on that. I also do not know how to do it, but I can probably find out.

i am against disabeling it , thats all i have to say, i don't care how op the unit is that wat makes ppl come back to play the mod, if u want to disable the sp then should disable all Reward units,until everything is properly balanced.

anyway the sp is not OP thats wat they were saying 4 days ago about the JT as well when i had 57 kills with it, its the armor doctorine that makes the unit survivable.

[omgNiko]

No other unit is off the charts in terms of competitiveness like the SP- every other unit or reward unit when combined with doctrine buffs is still pretty much tolerable.
It is not the SP in itself that's broken. Its designed around giving the Allies a super-heavy like the KT. It has the same range as a KT and a similar weapon, but it has a faster reload and more speed/accel in exchange for sacrificing the KT's massive health.

The problem is not the SP, but the double tier 3 move-and-shoot-at-80% repair mode its given with the Armor Doctrine. This is in combination with the availability of getting two repair kits. Thus you get a totally new breed of predator.

Perhaps Ick, who is very enthusiastic about coding, can be tasked with removing it until there is a revamp on the part of a potential new team of developers and moderators?

Thank you for your consideration, guys.

[Hicks58]

The SP is one of those units that'll rip you to bits if you aren't expecting it, but will fall flat on it's face if you build a company with it in mind - Kinda like facing 88 companies.

Run a full medium tank Armour coy against an 88 coy without realising it and you're in for the equivalent of a living hell unless your team mates can bail you out.

However, bring a well equipped Tank Hunters coy to an SP coy and bad times will be had by the SP when it's having to dodge Teller mines, tread breaks, APCR Marders/JagdPanthers and the likes. Hell any company with a heavy focus on vehicle disablers will give it a rough time.

Saying that though, the SP definitely does take it to a new extreme, mainly because the Allies have no other super heavy at all besides it.

[omgNiko]

Unfortunately I disagree that the SP is comparable to regular strats like armour spam or 88s, because of the brokenness of the moving and shooting double repair. Nobody's making threads about 88s or armour spam or the like because they're counterable, whereas the SP  has two repairs that basically do not infringe on its usage at all and is a super-heavy.

You are right that they are counter-able, but the point is that in the hands of the best players, certain things in the meta become apparent. Those on par as the best players can counter and beat each other on any given day. Unfortunately, like smokaz in the past- who was the best player for a time- and now shabtajus, there just isn't a way to effectively counter the super pershings double rolling and shooting repair without dedicating your entire company to that sole purpose, and in effect probably losing the game for your team.

Having to dedicate an entire company as one high level player facing another, in order to just kill A SINGLE UNIT- not a company, as you have pointed out as any company is counter-able- is an indicator that there is a feature that is out of place in the game.

The Super Pershing I feel is on par with the Tiger Ace- when the Super Pershing DOES NOT have the moving and shooting double repair kits. The Tiger Ace is not a problem in my opinion at all.

Even if there were some crazy buffs included in the doctrines instead of the moving and shooting while repairing Tier 3's, this unit would NOT be over powered. Its just this very combination that makes the game Arcade Mode for a good player, and the single unit hardly counter-able even by equal quality players.

Thanks for listening!

[Bear]

EIRR isnt a historic mod you numpty.
.
.

Cool, then bring the Maus back.

[XIIcorps]

Cool, then bring the Maus back.

Maus wasnt removed because of historic inaccuracy, it was the fact that it required a team to invest more then 85% of their AT ability to kill it.

That and at wars start it was impossible to kill.

[Bear]

Maus wasnt removed because of historic inaccuracy, it was the fact that it required a team to invest more then 85% of their AT ability to kill it.

That and at wars start it was impossible to kill.

Your arguments are contradictory and I remember many situations and I saw a lot of movies where was a mouse dying.
Especially Airborne were fatal.

Perhaps many players were not smart enough to kill a Maus and perhaps the same players are not smart enough to kill a SP.

[chefarzt]

I remember many situations and I saw a lot of movies

[XIIcorps]

Your arguments are contradictory and I remember many situations and I saw a lot of movies where was a mouse dying.
Especially Airborne were fatal.

Perhaps many players were not smart enough to kill a Maus and perhaps the same players are not smart enough to kill a SP.

This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKqWFhjnORc

The only reason the maus died, was the piats triggered a mine.

Otherwise it would have just kept rolling backwards

[Hicks58]

The Maus was removed from the face of the planet because it was fucking stupid.

No sense of balance, no sense of purpose, the unit from concept to iteration was just straight up retarded and it should have had the hammer dropped on it LONG before I got around to it.

[omgNiko]

This drive to get rid of the Super Pershing due to its effectiveness when employed in conjunction with the armour doctrine top and bottom tier 3s, is not solveable by bringing other past over-powered units back in order to implement some ludicrous attempt at balancing it for the axis. The goal is to improve the game with logic and reason, not discourage a consensus on overall balance.

To be clear Bear, the Maus was NOT over-powered whenever you or Chain used it- but when Nikomas and one or two other very high level players on his team happened to use one each in a single 3v3, the same problem would arise on the part of equal quality players- they would need to bring companies dedicated to defeating that single unit and face losing regardless.

The Maus is different from the SP in that it just had way more health than even a KT, but in my opinion it was less difficult to fight than the current SP with double moving and shooting repair kits. The Maus was less over-powered in the state it was when it was removed than the current combination of the Super Pershing with top and bottom tier 3s, and it was removed for purposes of balance.

As the Allied super-heavy, the Super Pershing is fine as a unit in and of itself, however it is virtually intolerable with two mobile-combat repair kits. It would be enough to disable the two doctrinal abilities of being able to move at 80% and being able to shoot at 80% while repairing, but it is the only unit which is drastically outside of the echelon of reasonable balance when implementing these doctrinal abilities.

[GORKHALI]

EIRR isnt a historic mod you numpty.

If you think the SP is broken now you obviously dont recall the flank speed APCR SP of old.

And i still think your headbutting the wall in terms of balance, there is no team or head of balance.

Maus wasnt removed because of historic inaccuracy, it was the fact that it required a team to invest more then 85% of their AT ability to kill it.

That and at wars start it was impossible to kill.

I don't care we want MAus back,... we as community player want it back so it should be back, or remove SP for the time being until solutions found

[Bear]

To be clear Bear, the Maus was NOT over-powered whenever you or Chain used it- but when Nikomas and one or two other very high level players on his team happened to use one each in a single 3v3, the same problem would arise on the part of equal quality players- they would need to bring companies dedicated to defeating that single unit and face losing regardless.

Just we have this problem with almost every unit.
Some player are be good with every unit and some player are be good with her favorite unit and for others it always looks as if this unit OP.
In this manner you will in a conventional way never find a balance.

[omgNiko]

There is balance to be found using my example, Bear. If two players are of equal skill level, ie. the best players in the mod, then they should be able to defeat one another on any given day. Things that prevent this dynamic are game breaking.

[XIIcorps]

Axis have a plethora of AT weapons, mines and crippling abilities.

Just because its Shab trolling you all with his gimmick builds dont mean something is outa wack.

We all know despite shabs scumbagly projection he actually has the micro of a Korean SC2 player.

[omgNiko]

He's excellent with the SP exploit, and he's excellent at keeping reward unit LV's alive with the same ability, and hes excellent at captajus. But in all honesty, why can this super-heavy tank be super fast, extremely bounce-prone-armoured, indeed very fast, with tons of health, and have a great main gun in all respects, plus extremely fast reload... be able to have TWO repair kits for like 250 MU or w/e it is- and move and shoot while repairing?...