Thoughts on current EIR gameplay

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[PonySlaystation]

1: The sector capturing system in EIR feels like it's inherently flawed by the fact that a single engineer can keep a larger army from capturing it.
A considerable amount of time in game is spend chasing down single units who are backcapping and holding sectors on their own. The best strategy to gain population is to send single units instead of a smaller flanking group.

The solution is to change it so that the team with more units in a sector can capture it from the other team. That way if a team should focus all their units on one sector to take it they lose out on other sectors.
At the moment you send units not to fight but to sit at the corner of the map which is kind of gamey. If this is possible to implement I think it would be great.

2: Mine spam is a popular gimmick. Sending a few engineers to a part of the map that's not being fought over at the moment is a great strategy.
It requires little pop and placing mines is both quick and will slow down the enemy advance. The amount of time spent trying to individually find every mine with a minesweeper is very time consuming.
The detection range is short, the cost is roughly the same as engineers with mines and having lots of minesweepers is useless against a team that doesn't use mines.
Thus a minespam company will always be at advantage over a minesweeping company. So both sides tend to use the same strategy and it slows down the gameplay a lot.
It's not placing a few defenses and then mines to defend a sector, it's a gimmick of placing mines everywhere. There is no limitation.

There are a number of possible ideas of how to solve this problem. Increase the range for mine detection, give population cost to mines or increase the time it takes to lay mines so they can be interrupted.

3: Most infantry seems to have the ability to lay simple defenses like sandbags and barbed wire and the few units who don't have them seem to get them through T1 and T2 doctrines. But not all.
Why not make it global to all basic infantry?

[Tachibana]

The detection range is short, the cost is roughly the same as engineers with mines

80mp + 10 mu vs 110ish mp and 30ish mun?

And thats assuming you're only dealing with one engy. Minespam coy and that 80mp, 10 mun minesweeper for 1 pop is amazing. I wouldn't mind a slight extension of detection range, but, I don't think minespam coy's are as broken as you make them out to be.

As for capping sectors, that's more of an issue with map layout rather than the core mechanics of EIR. Stupid big flank sectors in the midline of the map are never a good idea.

[XIIcorps]

Everything you outlaid in your capping sector pony is flawed.

Map design inhertantly dictates gameplay, some 3v3 maps are only 3 sectors wide, meaning brute force companies have the advantage, others are 4 or 5 sectors wide, meaning a highly manoverable coy gets a level playing field vs a brute coy due to being able to out cap and gain a pop advantage.

As for you minesweeper arguement thats moot.

Sweepers for all factions are 80mp 10mu, where as mines are 110mp 15mu for pio's, 110mp 35mu for engies, 180mp 35mu for sappers.

[tank130]

We have discussed the capping thing before.

Does a 3 man KCH beat a rifle squad for capping? Do you base it on unit pop?

[XIIcorps]

We have discussed the capping thing before.

Does a 3 man KCH beat a rifle squad for capping? Do you base it on unit pop?

There's nothing wrong with capping tank, pony is just going off on some unknown tangent.

The counter to lonely inf squads capping is LV's which every faction has something more then capable of dealing with those squads.

[PonySlaystation]

When half of the time in game is spent hunting down backcappers or finding mines that slows down gameplay a lot. Using a light vehicle and an infantry squad to take back territory is around 10 pop. Using a single soldier to capture territory and hold it from an advancing army until they scout the end of the map to find it is 1 pop. It should be streamlined. Shouldn't capturing and holding territory come down to map control? but why is it that map control is always dominated by the team who sends single soldiers to capture and hold territory instead of groups of units on the advance? It's a gimmick that should be done away with.

I know this because I always do this. Map control is a powerful tool and to be able to take 90% of the map in a few seconds just after a small setback by the enemy team makes their comeback impossible. Because good luck trying to take back sectors one at a time by hunting down the lonely soldier preventing you from taking it and he probably placed mines too. Should you actually be able to take back all those sectors from a backcapping, you're already at a loss, your team has started losing pop and the enemy gained some.

Does a 3 man KCH beat a rifle squad for capping? Do you base it on unit pop?

Yes, population based is the best idea. In your example they would be equal until the fighting starts at which point the sector will be contested meaning who ever sends more units into the fight and wins takes the sector, just like a real advance. Backcapping would be more of a flanking operation rather than sending single low-pop units.

As for capping sectors, that's more of an issue with map layout rather than the core mechanics of EIR. Stupid big flank sectors in the midline of the map are never a good idea.

Even if the sectors were smaller pioneers would still have the advantage because they are more pop effective and so they can capture territory faster. Having too many sectors like that would make it even worse as more time would be spend taking sectors than fighting.

80mp + 10 mu vs 110ish mp and 30ish mun?

Engineers with mines can lay down mines and capture territory. Minesweepers can just negate a few of those mines. What keeps the enemy from placing lots of mines and then move their own Light Vehicle to counter minesweepers? Try to hunt their Engineers, you hit mines. Try to sweep the mines you die to LV. Try to move a larger group of units into the area, you're slowed down and the enemy gains a pop advantage by standing at the edge of the sector. No matter what you're at a loss.

[XIIcorps]

When half of the time in game is spent hunting down backcappers or finding mines that slows down gameplay a lot. Using a light vehicle and an infantry squad to take back territory is around 10 pop. Using a single soldier to capture territory and hold it from an advancing army until they scout the end of the map to find it is 1 pop. It should be streamlined. Shouldn't capturing and holding territory come down to map control? but why is it that map control is always dominated by the team who sends single soldiers to capture and hold territory instead of groups of units on the advance? It's a gimmick that should be done away with.

I know this because I always do this. Map control is a powerful tool and to be able to take 90% of the map in a few seconds just after a small setback by the enemy team makes their comeback impossible. Because good luck trying to take back sectors one at a time by hunting down the lonely soldier preventing you from taking it and he probably placed mines too. Should you actually be able to take back all those sectors from a backcapping, you're already at a loss, your team has started losing pop and the enemy gained some.

Yes, population based is the best idea. In your example they would be equal until the fighting starts at which point the sector will be contested meaning who ever sends more units into the fight and wins takes the sector, just like a real advance. Backcapping would be more of a flanking operation rather than sending single low-pop units.

Even if the sectors were smaller pioneers would still have the advantage because they are more pop effective and so they can capture territory faster. Having too many sectors like that would make it even worse as more time would be spend taking sectors than fighting.

Engineers with mines can lay down mines and capture territory. Minesweepers can just negate a few of those mines. What keeps the enemy from placing lots of mines and then move their own Light Vehicle to counter minesweepers? Try to hunt their Engineers, you hit mines. Try to sweep the mines you die to LV. Try to move a larger group of units into the area, you're slowed down and the enemy gains a pop advantage by standing at the edge of the sector. No matter what you're at a loss.

Stop with the theory crafting man its annoying, you're describing isolated scenarios and using them as a basis for an everygame argument.

And as for you single man back capping squads, they can only get so before
A) they get routed by an enemy unit

B) they get back capped themselves, as they can only secure the territory that they occupy

[tank130]

There's nothing wrong with capping tank, pony is just going off on some unknown tangent.

Never said there was. Just said it has been discussed.

The Dev team discussed this extensively. The consensus seemed to be that capping is a part of game play.
What Pony is describing is certainly really annoying and borders on poor sportsmanship, but the alternatives take too much away from the game to make it worth changing.

[Hicks58]

Minespam argument is purely a case of L2P. Bring 2-3 sweepers in your coy, and make liberal use of anything that ever uses AoE if you suspect mines. Adapt your tactics to theirs.

Capping though... That one has been a pet peeve of mine for ages, especially on maps where you can end up on minus pop even though you've got nearly half the map (Derp as fuck sector sizes and proportions compared to map layout).

Capping by pop would be straight up better than our current system. Pretty sure Blitzkreig mod did it over 4-5 years ago, lol.

It was discussed by the dev team a few times, but ultimately it got on the low priority/never get done list due to the effort involved of making the system. That and something higher priority always came up before it took off.

[Scotzmen]

Pretty sure it's all SCAR coding aswell, which i refuse to ever go back into. It like coding, but 10 times worse.

Other than that, if someone can figure out a way of doing it code side wise, i'm all for it.

[XIIcorps]

Pretty sure it's all SCAR coding aswell, which i refuse to ever go back into. It like coding, but 10 times worse.

Other than that, if someone can figure out a way of doing it code side wise, i'm all for it.

Borrow blitz code ?

otherwise leave it as is.

[Scotzmen]

I'd have to ask permission, even then, i wouldn't know how to implement it.

[Hicks58]

We'd probably need EiRRMod for it, or a lurking SCAR coder.