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Author Topic: New Doctrine design questions  (Read 4355 times)
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tank130 Offline
Sugar Daddy
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Posts: 8889


« on: June 17, 2015, 05:46:01 pm »

I don't understand why it is so hard for some people to just start a thread and ask some questions; but apparently sending me a PM instead was easier?

For those that find topic creation tricky, I will get the ball rolling:

Apparently you locked your announcement thread so I'm going to send you a PM instead.

There's something I'd like to point out about your new doctrine design themes. They are:

Infantry / Support
Mobility / Mechanized
Armor / Tanks

I notice two of these are geared towards specific types of units and the other is wholly playstyle oriented (Mobility / Mechanized). I think this could cause a lot of confusion and overlap. For instance, since there is a special Mobility doctrine does that mean Tanks can't get speed buffs in the Armour doctrine? Mobility is a very vague theme unit wise, I mean every unit in the game can be played around the mobility concept, even with MGs you have the choice of protecting an area or constantly redeploying. I just wonder why this specific playstyle gets its own doctrine. Are you trying to differentiate the doctrines by playstyle or by units? Because if you do the former you could potentially put for example, the Pershing, in every doctrine but give it different buffs.

I don't really have a comment on where you want to go with the themes but I do think the themes should be consistent.

The themes are consistent.  In many cases the doctrine will be very specific to certain units. For example: Airborne, Commandos, and luft will be part of the mobility / Mechanized doctrine and not available anywhere else.
Rangers would be specific to the infantry / support doctrine.

You may see speed buffs to tanks in the mobility / mechanized doctrine, but pretty doubtful as tank buffs should be specific to the tank / armor doctrine. I am not saying you WILL NOT see a buff, I am saying it is unlikely unless it can be shown it really fits into the theme.

What you will generally see is infantry/support and Tank/armor being very specific to very specific units where as mobility/mechanized being a more generalist type build.

If you are going Tank/Armor, you will need support from your teammates. You will NOT have really great tanks and great infantry to support them.

Just a few clarifications

1.) I assume you mean the new doctrines will no longer be determined by tiers. As in you could get all three "tier 3's" and 3  "tier 4's"(I only say "tier" to reference locations, not as actual doctrine choices ofc) If so, you may want to clarify that on your thread.

2.) How many out of the 12 choices will a player be able to choose? 6? The current 7? Different?

3.) You may want to make your that template you put up cannot be altered publicly. Otherwise everyone is going to be trying to make doctrines on the same spreadsheet.

1.) There are no tiers. If you look at the sample doctrine sheet we provided, you will see there are no tiers. Just a bunch of boxes that will hold abilities. You can choose any ability in any order, anywhere on the page.

2.) I think that will become a work in progress and determined by the overall power of the abilities we all come up with.

3.) If people are too fucking stupid to save their spreadsheet as their own, then they deserve to have their work over written. Come on guys, this is not playschool. Save the document as your own and then create your design on it.
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Hobomancer Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 109


« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2015, 07:22:31 pm »

Should we design these doctrines in line with a new repair system revolving around pioneers or not? Kind of a big deal IMO.
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tank130 Offline
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2015, 09:29:46 pm »

Should we design these doctrines in line with a new repair system revolving around pioneers or not? Kind of a big deal IMO.

That is actually a really great question. Let me get back to you on that.
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koimn6 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 121


« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 06:30:21 am »

wanna know dev's example coy, for understand what they wanna change like.
still can't foresee after this big patch.
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Shabtajus Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2564


The very best player of one of the four factions.

« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 08:04:38 am »

wp EIR:R devs for taking a mod to a brand new design +1

what a bout coding? Does it started? When you guys planing to release your new ideas?
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Tries to convince people he's a good guy,says things like this. Scumbag Shab.
Scotzmen Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 2035


« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2015, 09:20:33 am »

Anything Scar related. EG Extra pop, call in timers etc are out as it's all scar code unfortunately. Although we can keep the exsisting population increases and timers that are currently in place exactly where they are.
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tank130 Offline
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Posts: 8889


« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2015, 07:28:56 am »

Should we design these doctrines in line with a new repair system revolving around pioneers or not? Kind of a big deal IMO.

The answer is yes. We are moving over to repair engineers. It would be nice to have someone come up with a better name. Something specific to the faction would be nice.
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hans Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3497



« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2015, 09:07:10 am »

The answer is yes. We are moving over to repair engineers. It would be nice to have someone come up with a better name. Something specific to the faction would be nice.

Americans:
repairman
repairman crew

british:
royal engineer
royal engineer crew

Wehrmacht:
Techniker
Technikertrupp

Panzerelite:
Panzerpionier
Panzerpioniertrupp

« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 09:09:53 am by hans » Logged



Also, bad analogy ground, My vegetables never pissed on my ego when I decided they defeated me and gave up on dessert.
Tachibana Offline
NotADev
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Posts: 1270


« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2015, 03:11:26 pm »

Anything Scar related. EG Extra pop, call in timers etc are out as it's all scar code unfortunately. Although we can keep the exsisting population increases and timers that are currently in place exactly where they are.

So much sad face, you don't even understand.

Could that be gone around by having certain units cost less pop (similar to mobile warfare)?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 03:14:46 pm by Tachibana » Logged

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GrayWolf Offline
Development
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Posts: 1590



« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2015, 03:41:35 pm »

Could that be gone around by having certain units cost less pop (similar to mobile warfare)?

Welp, that's better than extra pop. Imagine volks/rifles cost 4 pop lol. Much spammerino Cheesy
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GrayWolf Offline
Development
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Posts: 1590



« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2015, 11:43:45 pm »

As for the engies new names :


USA: Mechanic
Teasippers: Royal Engies
WH: Technican
PE: Ingenieur
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Tachibana Offline
NotADev
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Posts: 1270


« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2015, 06:18:24 am »

How anal do we have to be about the Battalion/battalion mix doctrines. Like, can I just say "all support weapons" or "all infantry" or do I explicitly have to exclude and unlock inf/support weapons that would be included in that definition?

For example: "All tanks gain -60s smoke cannister recharge". Is it ok to have that in the "Battalion buff only" or do I have to exclude Stuhs explicitly/move it to mid line?


I have run into a lot of these issues due to the fact you need to balance out multiple selections to compete with each other as opposed to balancing out entire trees. While it is amazing flexible for choosing a doctrine set for a company, it seems equally restrictive when designing the doctrine. What I'm really asking is, how much leeway is there?
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tank130 Offline
Sugar Daddy
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Posts: 8889


« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2015, 08:48:03 am »

How anal do we have to be about the Battalion/battalion mix doctrines. Like, can I just say "all support weapons" or "all infantry" or do I explicitly have to exclude and unlock inf/support weapons that would be included in that definition?

For example: "All tanks gain -60s smoke cannister recharge". Is it ok to have that in the "Battalion buff only" or do I have to exclude Stuhs explicitly/move it to mid line?


I have run into a lot of these issues due to the fact you need to balance out multiple selections to compete with each other as opposed to balancing out entire trees. While it is amazing flexible for choosing a doctrine set for a company, it seems equally restrictive when designing the doctrine. What I'm really asking is, how much leeway is there?

The second row of Doctrine specialization allows for buffs that affect both Unlocks & Battalion units. The preferred design is to only buff the unlocks in this row, but there is some leeway.

Also keep in mind that you do not have to create all equal buffs, pricing will do that. You may choose to pick all the uber buffs at a high cost and I may choose to pick the lower buffs with more resources left over for other things.
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