Big Changes coming

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[tank130]

The world is coming to an end

[Tachibana]

Excellent planning, well thought out and still quite fun for the community.

I would say though, once the start to testing new doctrines begins, whenever that may be, that the dev team take into consideration which 3 doctrines they release for testing at a time per faction. For every release, you will end up with a meta where one set of three may be more powerful than another set of three and be called OP/UP, but when looked at in a set of 6/9/12, may actually be in line. A classic community over-reaction.

Maybe the best way to avoid this is for the dev team to internally assess which doctrine choices seem to line up in perceived power and release those sets of three and gradually work their way up.Yes, I know that all the new doctrines are theoretically equal in power, but practically, looking at all the submissions (myself, volsk, jack, aero, tig), there are some that look better than others.(unless, ofc, you guys have already done a complete internal re-balance)

I know this creates an extra leg of work for the already loaded dev team, but it could make the testing process go a lot smoother with the generally volatile/reactionary community that is EIR. It will also make genuine imbalances much more easy to identify and rectify.

Perhaps a pattern such as; Unit unlocks -> Utility doctrines -> Synergy Doctrines -> Single Unit Doctrines -> 'This Probably needs playtesting' doctrines (or whatever you guys see as practical/fitting)

Just a suggestion!!! Don't eat me alive for it. I'm not saying you guys are doing it wrong! Just trying to foresee any possible problems. In any case, excellent work.

[AlphaTIG]

first of all this is really great. i didnt expect these changes anytime soon.

however, i have one question: what about bonus units and doctrine units? will they be available in the beginning?

[tank130]

Excellent planning, well thought out and still quite fun for the community.

I would say though, once the start to testing new doctrines begins, whenever that may be, that the dev team take into consideration which 3 doctrines they release for testing at a time per faction. For every release, you will end up with a meta where one set of three may be more powerful than another set of three and be called OP/UP, but when looked at in a set of 6/9/12, may actually be in line. A classic community over-reaction.

Maybe the best way to avoid this is for the dev team to internally assess which doctrine choices seem to line up in perceived power and release those sets of three and gradually work their way up.Yes, I know that all the new doctrines are theoretically equal in power, but practically, looking at all the submissions (myself, volsk, jack, aero, tig), there are some that look better than others.(unless, ofc, you guys have already done a complete internal re-balance)

I know this creates an extra leg of work for the already loaded dev team, but it could make the testing process go a lot smoother with the generally volatile/reactionary community that is EIR. It will also make genuine imbalances much more easy to identify and rectify.

Perhaps a pattern such as; Unit unlocks -> Utility doctrines -> Synergy Doctrines -> Single Unit Doctrines -> 'This Probably needs playtesting' doctrines (or whatever you guys see as practical/fitting)

Just a suggestion!!! Don't eat me alive for it. I'm not saying you guys are doing it wrong! Just trying to foresee any possible problems. In any case, excellent work.

Nice post - well thought out and thought provoking.

Thanks.

I anticipate a lot of discussion on this. I don't have an answer at this point, but I do have an answer for this one item:

A classic community over-reaction.

We plan to completely ignore it this time. Well thought out posts like yours will be discussed. The rest will simply be ignored. This dev team has sat stagnant for years out of fear of making the masses unhappy. All that did was make the masses unhappy.
This time we will code what we feel is the right direction for the mod. If it fails, we will be to blame for taking a stand instead of being blamed for inaction.

[GrayWolf]

I like the baby steps idea, but one thing bothers me. Won't that 3 upgrades per week a bit... Well It won't work as well as with actual t4 system. In the new system you choose whatever you want, so you can make one unit really uber and before you come up with resources argument, I rather get 1 super duper Persh that can be repaired twice and kill anything on it's way. (and with good micro management and teamwork, Persh like that could survive at least for 75% of the match).

But yeah, because no one like hate, I came up with a solution.
I've seen all the presented doctrines and what I would suggest is make 4 upgrades per week in order : top/mid/bottom.
This will make doctrine a bit more balanced, because you buff all the doctrinal/base units at the same time (and this can prevent making super units companies).

For example :

Week 1 -  top
Week 2 - bottom
Week 3 - mid (balanced based on top and bottom)

Mid can be a bit problematic due to it's "all units" idea, but this should be a bit easier to balance in that order in my opinion.

[ItsDouggernaut]

First of all: love what is happening here and it's great to see some really effective and exciting progress being made since my shortish time in this mod.

I would, however, just like to ask what will be happening to reward units: i.e: those associated to profiles and also saved up gold?

Thanks and would like to reiterate how excited I am!

[tank130]

I would, however, just like to ask what will be happening to reward units: i.e: those associated to profiles and also saved up gold?

Complete wipe

I've seen all the presented doctrines and what I would suggest is make 4 upgrades per week in order : top/mid/bottom.

Implementation will be based on the availability of coders to do the work and the time they have available. Our projected timelines are based on what they feel they can achieve.

Implementation will be based less on game play and more on productivity. There is a possibility of creating a cluster fuck game play wise, but there is a possibility it will not create a cluster fuck. We are not going to waste our time with that theory crafting.

We will get the work done when we can, how we can.

[jackmccrack]

+1, good things, happiness

[Tymathee]

not the first time this has happened, i hope that you guys will actually finish this thing one day

[ItsDouggernaut]

Lay off... the devs have lives outside of EiR and you could just be thankful that they are investing the time to help the mod flourish

[Tymathee]

note my donator tag and my posts before you act like you know my intentions.

[Tymathee]

Nice post - well thought out and thought provoking.

Thanks.

I anticipate a lot of discussion on this. I don't have an answer at this point, but I do have an answer for this one item:
We plan to completely ignore it this time. Well thought out posts like yours will be discussed. The rest will simply be ignored. This dev team has sat stagnant for years out of fear of making the masses unhappy. All that did was make the masses unhappy.
This time we will code what we feel is the right direction for the mod. If it fails, we will be to blame for taking a stand instead of being blamed for inaction.

great answer.

[Shabtajus]

lol Tym sup my brother? u aint got chickens wings in ur fridge atm if u came here?

[Tymathee]

i hate chicken wings but my wife keeps cookin 'em so i eat 'em. i'm good, just work, kids, life.

[WildZontar]

Ha ha! I knew my faith wasn't misplaced.

[chefarzt]

i hate chicken wings but my wife keeps cookin 'em so i eat 'em. i'm good, just work, kids, life.

Nothing beats cooked chicken wings.......