November patch general balance thread

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[Shabtajus]

What about slightly decreading set up time for flakpanzerwieg? I feel it takes too much time to set up or pack his stuff and move. I used them for a while and i can say its pretty bad when you cant move it away from allied AT.

[XIIcorps]

What about slightly decreading set up time for flakpanzerwieg? I feel it takes too much time to set up or pack his stuff and move. I used them for a while and i can say its pretty bad when you cant move it away from allied AT.

The brofors knows this pains.

[GrayWolf]

The brofors knows this pains.

At least bofors doesn't cost a lot. But yeah, british emplacement should have ability to pack up and change position. That would allow british to use more "cover and move" approach.

[terrapinsrock]

What about slightly decreading set up time for flakpanzerwieg? I feel it takes too much time to set up or pack his stuff and move. I used them for a while and i can say its pretty bad when you cant move it away from allied AT.

ohgodwhy Flakverlings

They are just awful for the price you pay, same with the Whirbelwind. Besides, I thought the Flakverling still broke the game and was never fixed?

[aeroblade56]

if the flakvierling didnt scar the game. i think ppl would use them.

the flakvierling is actually very good it suffers from a weak crew unlike the bofors.

it will maw rifleman into meat.

it has 3x the rof than the bofors but it doesnt have the burst duration which bofors is just a bit longer.

if u hug a bofors your chances of actually taking hit are pretty much 0.

[Shabtajus]

Saying it rapes infantry does not make sense aeroblade. Ofc it rapes them because it is ment to do it. Its like saying JP eats tanks and than walking away without any suggestions how to fix or nerf unit...

All i am saying this flakpanzerwig unit is shit and is totally bad in current meta because of set up time. Decrease set up time, decrease sight by 5 metres, leave price as it is now. It will fix a unit since you will need provide a sight for it to make it work which is extra pop/resources on the field to support flakpanzerwieg

[aeroblade56]

All i am saying this flakpanzerwig unit is shit and is totally bad in current meta because of set up time.

key word would be current meta. that is because the meta is based around tanks and atgs 2 things the flakvierling hates.
it's a support unit, you use it like a bofors to protect something bigger or a fall back point.

I use Bofors to protect my atg on a flank so i am free to micro other side.

I do agree the packup time does need to be fixed as 30s is way to long for both units. 20s packup time is more likeable for both and maybe a doctrine here or there to increase HP and what not and maybe a further -5s or more packup time.

but we dont want is the unit to unpack and repack and instantly heal all over again.

[XIIcorps]

A balance for fireup would be a sight reduction, so you could use it agressively if you wanted to but your troops suffer from "tunnel" vision.

[aeroblade56]

Fireup is already balanced.(for some units)

you pay a premium for AB and Rangers with that ability which are doctrinal and have to be unlocked.

There is also a sight penalty to fireup, aswell as a exhaustion.

all this on i think 240s recharge ability.


Sprint gives u a lovely 180s recharge i do believe, available for most PE infantry.
Which true enough isnt a escape button  like fireup, but its on a faster recharge.
on mainline and specialist infantry. and does no give the draw back of exhaustion

Don't forget that Pgrens are also some of the best mainline infantry currently ingame with the cheapest upgrades aswell.

[XIIcorps]

Gren LMG's - Seem to be insta supressing inf, more so then a MG42 squad would. Might wanna look into that.

[Tachibana]

You need about 3-4 gren LMG's to equal the suppression rate of a MG42(range dependent). There are also factors such as how clsoe together your squads are/how many you have. Tig will probably have spreadsheet for you.

[XIIcorps]

You need about 3-4 gren LMG's to equal the suppression rate of a MG42(range dependent). There are also factors such as how clsoe together your squads are/how many you have. Tig will probably have spreadsheet for you.

2 gren lmgs are Insta suppressing 1 bren squad in green cover, so yeh.

[GORKHALI]

2 gren lmgs are Insta suppressing 1 bren squad in green cover, so yeh.

most of the supress were i had 2 Grens lmgs in cover and he was moving in with his bren tommies and got supressed in open ground and rangers have fire up so they can break supress so wat is the problem

[EliteGren]

Sprint should just be moved to vet 2

[GrayWolf]

Sprint should just be moved to vet 2

+1

[TheVolskinator]

Is the presence of non-doc healing for the Brits/WM making a difference? Is it a balance thing, or does everybody just not care enough to notice?

[Hicks58]

Sprint should just be moved to vet 2

Sprint should just be made a vet sergeant upgrade like it used to be. Want sprint? Pay some MP.

[Tachibana]

I've not been able to play a game yet, launcher pretty dead. However, my main things to see going in are:

1.) How will US fair with a lack of non-doctrinal hand-held AT like the zook/RR (reliant on stickies)
2.) Axis having a indirect fire advantage effect on US coy composition.
3.) How 5 man pgrens perform, especially with g43 upgrades.
4.) Will Boy's AT make a comeback? Especially with US lacking a counter to things like IHT's / Armoured Cars.
5.) Will the firefly become more functional with a lack of rush abilities like Blitzkrieg /Panzer Command.
6.) Is the BAR overpriced or fine as is.
7.) Will PIAT's be worth the 120 muni price without buffs to tanks.
8.) 3-man KCH were a rare sight in doctrinal EIR. Wonder if people will see them as worth it now.
9.) Will STUG's finally become more appreciated or will people still prefer P4/Panther.
10.) How will maligned Light vehicles such as the Flammen/t17 fare.
11.) Will halftracks become a more used method of transport with the reduction of HHAT.
12.) Generally, will EIR remain vehicle centric, or will the meta move towards infantry and support weapons.

Those are the major things I am interested in seeing.

On the side note of sprint, I would still prefer it to be attached to a manpower cost vet. sergeant. Firstly, to let the option be there for a new company/new player. Secondly, giving away free abilities in vet seems like a bad idea.

[tank130]

12.) Generally, will EIR remain vehicle centric, or will the meta move towards infantry and support weapons.

I sure hope so. I hate how this mod has become a spam fest of point & click vehicles and mass repairs.

Vehicles / tanks should be a strong force to reckon with, but easier to loose with no hope of return.

[TheVolskinator]

I like the infantry/tank balance as it is now, with the exception of some units (TA, Spergshing, JT, Stupida, and AVREthingdies). Tank heavy companies (esp. Axis ones) will roll over unprepared Allied infantry-based ones (sans AB with RR spam), but if you come packing plenty of AT (I always bring 6-7 ATGs per Allied company at the minimum) you can cover your infantry/vehicles and have free reign to pummel enemy infantry to bits.

On the flip side, my (Allied) tank-based companies can bash enemy infantry/medium tank-based companies to bits, assuming I have enough fodder Riflemen so as to drown the enemy in the Rifle's blood and entrails. Then, my tanks (with 'an ATG following each one around like a lost puppy') can roll up and do whatever. Contrary to that scenario, Axis companies with a ton of LVs, heavies (Panthers, according to CoH), or super-heavy ATGs (88s) absolutely shit all over my tank companies--I think thats fine.

The one caveat to my satisfaction is the usual EiR brands of spam. Including but not limited to:

Shab/rolc - Luft; nothing but ACs from one player, and LAHTs from the other, backed up by mass Fall shreck blobs, and using the crack speed mobility T4. Cap it off with Henshel runs to push off any mediums/heavies and the company is more or less A-move to victory.

Shab - Defensive; literally nothing but Volks. Volks, volks, volks; all with the Fatherland top T4 (obv. going away with the new docs iirc) and FtFl. Just drown the enemy in volks, cap everything, spam sandbags and hide behind them, and mass-faust anything that even considers thinking of looking at the blob funny.

Skaffa - Luft; literally a TA, pair of Marders, and nothing but Faust-wielding Falls. Basically the same as Shab's volkspam, but with ~50% more Panzer and ~257% more Elite.

Shab/Gork - Blitz; Pumas! Literally as many upgun Pumas as possible A-moving to victory and circlestrafing everything. Actually fairly counterable as zooks seriously fuck up Pumas (if they hit).

Shab - Inf (Bob Marley Brigade); An unending stream of riflemen basically covering the map from end to end with smoke, and grenading everything, and stickying everything else.

Bolt - Mandos; At least 4 Mando snipers backed up by nothing but Boys AT and a pair of ATGs.

Metz/Area213 - Defensive/Inf; Minespam, same old shizzle as Myst's tellerfields of doom/fountain of Pgrens. Except now it's a fountain of flame-spewing, 70 HP/man Pioneers with double mines and like 5 88s backing it up.

Those are the outstanding instances of spam that come to mind; some are counterable, some are pants on head retarded to deal with if you don't know it's coming, and many of those are coupled with unbelievably stacked games (something like myself, chugga, and clowntroopas vs. Shab, rolc, and Skaffa).

Outside of those spammy instances (which are just part of EiR), I think we're mostly good to go, with the exception of some small stuff that needs fixing; the M3 halftrack needs it's 50cal activated; you get charged 25 MU for an MG that doesn't work; the Blank Pimp needs his cannon fixed ( ;-D ), and the whole PE sprint thing.