single non doc zooks on rifleman

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[AlphaTIG]

since tank has made his position on this matter pretty clear..

this is just to prove a point since im fed up with the fuckin discussion going nowhere.

[TheVolskinator]

Voted no, my reasoning being presented in the other thread.

[tank130]

since tank has made his position on this matter pretty clear..

this is just to prove a point since im fed up with the fuckin discussion going nowhere.

Who said it was going nowhere? I know where it's going 

[AlphaTIG]

Who said it was going nowhere? I know where it's going 

yes i can clearly see how you like to force your opinion on other people...

[tank130]

yes i can clearly see how you like to force your opinion on other people...

You want a little cheez with your whine. Seriously dude, you come across like a spoiled little 12 year old.....lol

I am not forcing my opinion on anyone. If the game is fucked without zooks on rifles by default, then I am certainly not going to stop it. What I will stop is knee jerk reactions by 2 or 3 players who refuse to think of any solution other than the most simple brain dead solution.

This mod has been so dumbed down with nothing but point & click spam fests that it has died of stupidity. For 7 year we have used that approach and it has continued to go down hill. It's time we make this mod creative and challenging again. If that makes it too tough for you, then perhaps creative games are not for you.

[Walkin]

I think you're the one drawing knee-jerk conclusions here. Multiple members of this community have come forward, with proper arguments, asking for the inclusion of a very simple, very small change, and you've shot them down each time with what amounts to a "l2p noob" each time.

I understand your aversion to adding yet another feature to this mod, and to some extent I even applaud your restraint here. I completely agree that the constant addition of new and unnecessary features is what's dragged EiR down over the years. But I think it's time we acknowledge the reality that some things do need to be added to the game. And one of those things is some form of non-doctrinal HHAT for the US. So far we've stripped away doctrines, stripped away reward units, stripped away just about everything; it's time to start adding.

What's more, we can't just leave factions the way they are right now and save all the new stuff for doctrines. Right now we're playtesting a bare-bones version of EiR, and examining the core gameplay of the mod. I think we can all agree that EiR needs to have a solid core of game design before we can move on to secondary features like doctrines, reward units, etc. But in testing that core gameplay, many members of the community have independently come to the same conclusion: the US needs a reliable method of projecting AT firepower that doesn't require a Fuel cost or a crewed weapon. Take a moment to consider the gameplay of the mod, the average company composition, the common strategies employed by players, and the long-term overarching meta of EiR, and it becomes clear that HHAT isn't just a just a nice thing to have, it is a necessity. Currently, the US is the only faction without.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to disparage members of this community who are only trying to help. I'm also not sure why you feel that a complex outside-the-box solution is necessary when the perfect solution is right under out noses: Zooks on Rifles. Deferring to a completely unnecessary, more complex solution is just bad game design. Including Zooks on Rifles isn't even an attempt at mirror balance, like you're claiming it is, because Rifles are so different from Grenadiers, Zooks are so different from Schreks, and the US is so different from WM. Rifles with Zooks would be a completely different unit that Grens with Schreks, from top to bottom.

My suggestion: Zooks available on Rifles by default, and move Sticky Bombs to Infantry Doctrine.

[AlphaTIG]

I think you're the one drawing knee-jerk conclusions here. Multiple members of this community have come forward, with proper arguments, asking for the inclusion of a very simple, very small change, and you've shot them down each time with what amounts to a "l2p noob" each time.

I understand your aversion to adding yet another feature to this mod, and to some extent I even applaud your restraint here. I completely agree that the constant addition of new and unnecessary features is what's dragged EiR down over the years. But I think it's time we acknowledge the reality that some things do need to be added to the game. And one of those things is some form of non-doctrinal HHAT for the US. So far we've stripped away doctrines, stripped away reward units, stripped away just about everything; it's time to start adding.

What's more, we can't just leave factions the way they are right now and save all the new stuff for doctrines. Right now we're playtesting a bare-bones version of EiR, and examining the core gameplay of the mod. I think we can all agree that EiR needs to have a solid core of game design before we can move on to secondary features like doctrines, reward units, etc. But in testing that core gameplay, many members of the community have independently come to the same conclusion: the US needs a reliable method of projecting AT firepower that doesn't require a Fuel cost or a crewed weapon. Take a moment to consider the gameplay of the mod, the average company composition, the common strategies employed by players, and the long-term overarching meta of EiR, and it becomes clear that HHAT isn't just a just a nice thing to have, it is a necessity. Currently, the US is the only faction without.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to disparage members of this community who are only trying to help. I'm also not sure why you feel that a complex outside-the-box solution is necessary when the perfect solution is right under out noses: Zooks on Rifles. Deferring to a completely unnecessary, more complex solution is just bad game design. Including Zooks on Rifles isn't even an attempt at mirror balance, like you're claiming it is, because Rifles are so different from Grenadiers, Zooks are so different from Schreks, and the US is so different from WM. Rifles with Zooks would be a completely different unit that Grens with Schreks, from top to bottom.

My suggestion: Zooks available on Rifles by default, and move Sticky Bombs to Infantry Doctrine.

+1 on everything

and tank you can continue to tell everyone who makes suggestions that hes a fucking scrub who has to l2p, but then you should stop wondering why you dont get any fuckin infos from the community.

[tank130]

+1 on everything

and tank you can continue to tell everyone who makes suggestions that hes a fucking scrub who has to l2p, but then you should stop wondering why you dont get any fuckin infos from the community.

And your constant arrogant fucking attitude has almost worn out it's welcome with me. At the end of the day this mod is here because of me. You can disagree with me all day long and I have absolutely no problem with that; But do it with some respect or I will throw your fucking ass out of here. Hell, even shab who has no idea about balanced decision making has come up with more creative ideas than you. I hate that guy and I still compliment his creative input. But when he acts like a dick I shoot him down.


I have shot down the idea of Zooks by default - that is clearly not me shooting down everyone who makes a suggestion or calling them a fucking scrub.

I think you're the one drawing knee-jerk conclusions here. Multiple members of this community have come forward, with proper arguments, asking for the inclusion of a very simple, very small change, and you've shot them down each time with what amounts to a "l2p noob" each time.

Taking the input of 3 people and labeling it "Multiple members of this community have come forward" is over selling it a little there my friend

What I feel you guys are missing is why you need the change it in the first place. Ask yourself why playing this mod without spamming insane amounts of AT is pretty much suicide. How did this mod degrade into a vehicle / AT spam mod?

The answer is not to add more AT. The answer is to fix the reason you need so much.

A knee jerk reaction is what you do when you see a simple solution in front of your face and don't do the home work to determine why or what the ramifications of doing so will be.

I see a few posts of how great it will be for US players.......... Has anyone don the home work on how that will play out for PE and Wher players? Has anyone thought about all the "fix PE" threads we will see moving forward? The "add more repairs because there is so much AT out there" threads?

The only thing I am trying to stop is this constant instant approach to the game design where people look for the easy answer with no regard to the final outcome. It is this attitude that has put us in the position in the first place. We would not need so much AT if there wasn't a spam fest of vehicles on the field.

[chuggachar]

Taking the input of 3 people and labeling it "Multiple members of this community have come forward" is over selling it a little there my friend

I'm sorry, but if you'd look at the poll the opinion you're backing is the one with 3 people. One of those people is only voting for that option due to the fact you don't seem to want to relent. whereas the other option has 3 times as many votes. You're completely ignoring the popular opinion and trying to implement what you, the minority think is best even if nobody else likes it or agree's with it. That is exactly how you run a community into a ground by ignoring the community because "you know best".

For the love of god get off your high horse.

[Walkin]

Noone's asking to be able to spam Zooks, people would merely like access to some form of HHAT, because right now they have none at all. Sometimes you need some form of AT that you can garrison in a building; UK, WM, and PE all have access to this, but the US does not. Sometimes you find yourself playing on a map that is not at all friendly to ATGs or TDs and need a more versatile form of AT; UK, WM, and PE all have access to this, but the US does not. Sometimes you need a form of AT that consists of more than a two-man squad (seeing as an  ATG crew will retreat after just two casualties); UK, WM, and PE all have access to this, but the US does not. Sometimes you need an expendable form of AT to risk in a flanking maneuver or push deep int enemy territory; UK, WM, and PE all have access to this, but the US does not. Sometimes you need a form of AT that doesn't take up a whopping 10% of your Munitions supply (ATGs) or have an associated Fuel cost (TDs); UK, WM, and PE all have access to this, but the US does not. The list goes on and on.

It's not about giving the US a spammable form of AT, it's about giving them access to a basic necessity of the game. Zooks would still have to compete with all the other upgrades available to Riflemen, so they'd be no more or less common than BARs in the long run. If giving the US access to a very basic, very necessary form of AT really messes with PE or WM so much, than that has to do with fundamental design flaws of that faction, not of the Zooks themselves.

Finally, you have to remember that maybe only a dozen or so people are still even playing this game right now, and even fewer are willing to contribute on the forums. Even if just a handful of members come forward about this, that still makes up a significant portion of the mod's active community.

[tank130]

I have never said you should have a spammable for of HHAT. I am saying we should stop giving more AT and find a solution to the need to have more AT.

Your solution reads more like this:
Get me more horses because mine keep disappearing through the open gate.

My solution reads like this:
Find a solution to keeping the gate closed so we don't need so many horses.


Reduce the need for so much AT.

[Tachibana]

US are not in need of more AT. They simply need a reliable solution to just ONE type of vehicle. Not heavy tanks, Not medium tanks, but light vehicles. I have trepidation about reducing the efficiency of LVs as the past has shown that balancing LV's is quite difficult (see t17).

As you have said before, zooks will be available in doctrines, so once we get there, LV's will stop being a problem and things will come back to parity.

[Shabtajus]

I have never said you should have a spammable for of HHAT. I am saying we should stop giving more AT and find a solution to the need to have more AT.

Your solution reads more like this:
Get me more horses because mine keep disappearing through the open gate.

My solution reads like this:
Find a solution to keeping the gate closed so we don't need so many horses.


Reduce the need for so much AT.

One of the ways to fix it is by removing current repair system and replacing it with engies/pios/repair bunkers. Wear and tear effect will catch player thinking is it worth to lol rush atg. OMG mod has it. My personal experience playing EIRR with tanks is like "ok fuck it, i go in, who cares i will repair it later" meanwhile in OMG you think twice is it worth to soak up so much damage since you will have a shitty tank after repair.

Or you can reduce amount of fuel resources we get now. Ask yourself do we need 5 shermans 2 tigers? Or maybe less tanks which will lead us to less AT and more infantry based gameplay? Companies will be more focused on infatry usage because you will save mp instead of buying tanks. So infantry "spam" will bring mgs on the field. Mg will call arty and mortar usage. Game will be more strategic.

[Hicks58]

Wear and tear is complete junk without visual feedback on how much total hp a vehicle has lost.

One solid repair and LV's are ready to be one-shotted by ATG's, and you've got absolutely no idea that's the case until your M8 or Puma suddenly explodes when it really shouldn't. The only way that system would work out is if units had a number for it's health rather than a bar.

Also, increase total company MP by 50%, leaving MU and FU as it stands. An incredibly simple solution that could have massive (And potentially hilarious) effects.

[XIIcorps]

One of the ways to fix it is by removing current repair system and replacing it with engies/pios/repair bunkers. Wear and tear effect will catch player thinking is it worth to lol rush atg. OMG mod has it. My personal experience playing EIRR with tanks is like "ok fuck it, i go in, who cares i will repair it later" meanwhile in OMG you think twice is it worth to soak up so much damage since you will have a shitty tank after repair.

Or you can reduce amount of fuel resources we get now. Ask yourself do we need 5 shermans 2 tigers? Or maybe less tanks which will lead us to less AT and more infantry based gameplay? Companies will be more focused on infatry usage because you will save mp instead of buying tanks. So infantry "spam" will bring mgs on the field. Mg will call arty and mortar usage. Game will be more strategic.

so let's get rid of finite repairs in a persistency mod in favour of infinite repairs ? Yeah cool

[Shabtajus]

XIIcorps and hix stop being retards.

@Hicks - same idea like my just with different words. Lol at you trying derail my shit

@XIIcorps - first of all stop typing about shit you dont know. Play a game with wear and tear system than come back and talk about it. 200+ game in OMG i had and trust me i know what shit i am talking about 

[XIIcorps]

XIIcorps and hix stop being retards.

@Hicks - same idea like my just with different words. Lol at you trying derail my shit

@XIIcorps - first of all stop typing about shit you dont know. Play a game with wear and tear system than come back and talk about it. 200+ game in OMG i had and trust me i know what shit i am talking about 

my 50 or so games exp in omg is
1 cap territory with support spam
2 create wall of atgs / support spam
3 get repair bunker
4 win game as you rinse and repeat repairs on tanks.

[Shabtajus]

my 50 or so games exp in omg is
1 cap territory with support spam
2 create wall of atgs / support spam
3 get repair bunker
4 win game as you rinse and repeat repairs on tanks.

If you had so many games over there and still saying you have those problems breaking defensive lines than it surprises me a lot tbh. Maybe it's your own fault if you can not adapt to different meta game? Most of EIRR guys have a hard time playing omg because they dont have those insane doctrine buffs neither they have off-maps and tanks/lvs. They get used to LOL chatge!! type of strategies and with tools that eirr offers sometimes it's no brainer. Meanwhile "campy" game in OMG requires some set up before doing atacking.


Don't get me wrong. I am and i always gonna be EIRR fan since its way more dinamic and offers more abilities which is always a nice thing. But why invent wheel again? We have eirr experience and we have omg experience. Why we can not combine them and make EIRR:2 a better mod. No need spam of tanks. Focus more on infantry and tanks must be a rare expensive shit with cool veterancy stuff.

[aeroblade56]

too bad repairing in omg mod is the worse.

nothing like sitting 9 pop at the back all game repairing.

because 1 engineer will take about 8 minutes to repair anything.

and in general it really just makes the game incredibly slow and stagnant. if you see a omg game with only omg players they are prepared to wait a hour of game time repairing.

[Shabtajus]

too bad repairing in omg mod is the worse.

nothing like sitting 9 pop at the back all game repairing.

because 1 engineer will take about 8 minutes to repair anything.

and in general it really just makes the game incredibly slow and stagnant. if you see a omg game with only omg players they are prepared to wait a hour of game time repairing.

dunno man. I always catch them with moving constantly and shifting sides on the map. We had enough games with you where we just rolled over them. Its a stagnant game because omg guys are used to certain meta game like holding a line, get bunker and keep mortaring and they feel comfortable doing that "campy" strategy. what i am saying is what bothers you is slow repair speed? I am bothered with tanks being self repaired at 100% without wear and tear. So it's always a posibility get engies repair tanks faster OR i am bigger fan of this: eirr should not allow get double repairs on tanks and if tank loses more than 50% of HP and than goes repair it should get wear and tear penalty.