[US][WM]The Tiger and The Pershing

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[Hicks58]

I'd just like to interrupt your crusade there Icelandic and make a formal request for replays from you personally, showing the difficulties you are describing.

I've gone ahead and used both the Pershing and the Tiger. As always, they are as good as the support you provide for them be it yourself or your teammates.

So far I'm seeing a lot of shit flinging aimed at me, shit flinging aimed at Tank, but nothing concrete from you.

You want positive results? Present yourself properly. Even the input from people I frankly cannot stand has been taken on board after they've taken the time to stop foaming from the mouth in rage.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Everyone shit talks you guys, Everyone thinks of you guys as jokes.
There isnt a single talk of how things have changed for the past half a year that hasnt been talking about how things took a turn for the worse.
People are just Sick and tired of all the crap you put on as the basic idea is there and its good but the execution is shit and every idea that is put on to fix the mess you guys made has been trown into the ground and told to fuck off.

If you want any proof of what i just posted here i you can watch any of the broadcasts terrapin and graywolf have posted as ive been watching them for some time now and the only thing i hear consistently is the words, "Tank" "Hicks" "Retarded".


Good luck with the mod, Enjoy it and good luck with the setup but from what i see there is nothing but contempt.

And dont you dare delete this post Colossus.

[aeroblade56]

:l

[TheVolskinator]

Ice had a shit game right before he posted--bloxx went full huntmode and I think ice is understandably irritated. I'd ask that we take that into consideration before the banhammer is unsheathed.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

Noone should  ever get emotionally tied with vet volsky, this is just something ive wanted to write for some time so take care.

[GrayWolf]

Well, ice could be mad, but people are talking about tiggy/persh for a while now. With the toggle nerf it is just not worth the price. Look, why would you make toggle, while mediums can still do both. Same for KT, same for freaking hetzer (it is supposed to be TD i think). I don't wanna hate here too much,  but if something should be ace of all trades, it should not be mediums, nor Kt, nor special infantry, but tiger/persh. Let me say it like that, toggle is not the bad idea, but in the current form of EiR it just make tiggy/persh not worthy the price and using it feels bad. I mean, unless you play against people who try to rush them with zooks/panzerfaust, then yeah, no suprise here it feels good *looks at hicks*.


What I would suggest is to:
A) apply the toggle, when the whole balance thingy is complete.
B) give the tiger/persh few more abilities and adjust the price to make them feel special.

[hans]

Well, ice could be mad, but people are talking about tiggy/persh for a while now. With the toggle nerf it is just not worth the price. Look, why would you make toggle, while mediums can still do both. Same for KT, same for freaking hetzer (it is supposed to be TD i think). I don't wanna hate here too much,  but if something should be ace of all trades, it should not be mediums, nor Kt, nor special infantry, but tiger/persh. Let me say it like that, toggle is not the bad idea, but in the current form of EiR it just make tiggy/persh not worthy the price and using it feels bad. I mean, unless you play against people who try to rush them with zooks/panzerfaust, then yeah, no suprise here it feels good *looks at hicks*.


What I would suggest is to:
A) apply the toggle, when the whole balance thingy is complete.
B) give the tiger/persh few more abilities and adjust the price to make them feel special.

i agree with the above. Maybe it should be considered to apply toggle to all tanks that have dual purpose right now. Just to be consequent.

[Hicks58]

So instead of taking anything from my post at all Icelandic, you decided to go on a little rage and personal insult trip. You accuse us of telling people to go fuck off with their ideas and suggestions, when I've always encouraged people to put forward their suggestions regardless of whether I like them or not.

You also go ahead and try to tell a dev what they can and cannot do.

The issue isn't that you don't care, and you want that ban that you've always harped on about. You're making all this noise and slinging all this shit because you do care. People don't make a shit ton of noise about something they couldn't give two shits about, they just move the fuck on.

So if you actually want something positive out of your personal shit storm here, I'll say it one more time Icelandic.

Organise and present your findings or suggestions in a constructive way, if you want something good to come of this. Not Terrapin's, not Gray's, not anybody else's, yours. Get replays of unit use by yourself, and try using it in both traditional and different ways.

[tank130]

I am always open to intelligent well documented post about game design or balance.

What I am never tolerant of is community members that bash the Dev team, regardless of whether their opinion is correct or not. Simply put Ice, put some respect into it or get the fuck out.


Every decision the Dev team makes is not going to be perfect 100% of the time. It is always an evolutionary process and sometimes concept and reality don't balance. Also keep in mind that for every community member who thinks something should be one way, there are just as meany nay-sayers that say it should be the other way.

Here's one thing I can guarantee for everyone: what ever happens to this mod will be what I want to happen to it. I had announced I was shutting down the mod. Hicks convinced me that he would help keep it afloat. I said I would only do that if we continued design as I see it should be. It is my sole finances and time that keeps the mod alive, so it should be as I would like to see it.

If what I wants sinks the mod, so be it. The ship sailed on this mod 3 years ago. This is my attempt to save it and if I am wrong, than nothing more has been lost and nothing has been gained. It really is just that simple.


TL;DR

Its my mod and we will design it as I see fit. If you don't like it, get the fuck out and build your own mod.
If you want to share informative, well written respectful ideas, I strongly encourage you to do so and welcome the input.

[skaffa]

I had announced I was shutting down the mod.

What exactly did you mean by 'shutting down the mod'?

Was it meant as completely removing the possibility for anyone to play/continue EIR, or, just that someone else would have to take over and pay the bills?

[tank130]

What exactly did you mean by 'shutting down the mod'?

Was it meant as completely removing the possibility for anyone to play/continue EIR, or, just that someone else would have to take over and pay the bills?

As in the mod no longer exists.

That's the end of this discussion as it is no longer a balance discussion. The next posts brings the topic back on topic or the thread gets locked. Feel free to start a new topic in the correct forum if you wish to discuss this further.

[Walkin]

So uhh.. about that AP/HE toggle..

I'm not opposed to the idea of a functionality toggle, but its current implementation leaves a to to be desired.

The biggest problem, I do believe, is that the "AP is loaded, click to load HE" tooltip doesn't update properly, so you can't actually tell what you currently have loaded, or what round you'll be loading next, which makes the whole process extremely frustrating.

Secondly, exactly how the switch works remains a mystery, with multiple people giving me multiple different explanations. I do believe (from experience) the way it works is that even after your hit the toggle, the current round remains loaded, so that even after you hit the toggle you still have to fire off a round and go through a full reload cycle before you actually load the round you want. This is process frustrating and unintuitive. Worst part is that I can't even tell if this is actually the case, due to problem #1.

Finally, what are the stats on the AP/HE rounds? More or less the same as the old round?

We can't really comment on the design/functionality of the new toggle until we know exactly how the things actually works.

[tank130]

The round you currently have loaded is the opposite of the round shown in the HUD.

In other words: The round displayed is the round you will load if you click it.

Ignore the tool tip; it is screwed and will be fixed next patch.

As far as you needing to fire off the currently loaded round; that is the first I have heard of it and I would agree that would be completely fucked if it is fact. Who was your source for this information?

[TheVolskinator]

He is convinced this is the case, but it is not. As soon as you hit the button, the new type of ammunition is loaded.

[Shabtajus]

Well i like idea of toggle a lot but what bothers me is that you should get a little bit more extreme with this thing. What i mean if your on HE rounds you should rape infantry like no tomorrow but in that case even p4/sherman should bounce your shots or  penetrate your heavy tank same stuff should go for AP rounds - killing tanks like a boss and in meantime super bad vs infantry. There should be a huge difference when you switching rounds and atm you can't tell real difference to be honest.

Make toggle thing timer like 45 seconds or so to switch so pershing/tiger had flaws and required more planning before lol charging. I do believe it will make those tanks unique.

I do believe some hicks's magic with numbers can be done  and we will have a proper heavy tank instead of public joke like we have now.

[tank130]

Well i like idea of toggle a lot but what bothers me is that you should get a little bit more extreme with this thing. What i mean if your on HE rounds you should rape infantry like no tomorrow but in that case even p4/sherman should bounce your shots or  penetrate your heavy tank same stuff should go for AP rounds - killing tanks like a boss and in meantime super bad vs infantry. There should be a huge difference when you switching rounds and atm you can't tell real difference to be honest.

Make toggle thing timer like 45 seconds or so to switch so pershing/tiger had flaws and required more planning before lol charging. I do believe it will make those tanks unique.

I do believe some hicks's magic with numbers can be done  and we will have a proper heavy tank instead of public joke like we have now.

You raise a good point. I don't see a significant difference in the rounds either. That said, we need to be careful swinging the pendulum too far but perhaps the numbers could be boosted a bit.

45 second timer seems a bit extreme, but I like where you are thinking on it.

I like the idea of a specialized unit that can switch roles rather than have to be pulled off the field and replaced with something else. Heavy tanks can fill that role with a toggle. Players just need to realize the toggle is not an "I win" button you can flip to rofl stomp shit.

[CrazyWR]

I agree it definitely shouldn't be an IWIN button.  On the other hand, like you say, it isn't clear their is increased effectiveness by switching currently.  I do agree like Shab says that their should be drawbacks.  I would suggest something like a toned down IST against a toned down JP as far as the two toggles go, to demonstrate the possible extremes?

[Walkin]

The round you currently have loaded is the opposite of the round shown in the HUD.

In other words: The round displayed is the round you will load if you click it.

Ignore the tool tip; it is screwed and will be fixed next patch.

As soon as you hit the button, the new type of ammunition is loaded.

Knowing this, I'll give it another shot. Thanks for the clarification.