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Author Topic: Learning to R+  (Read 8769 times)
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Tachibana Offline
NotADev
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Posts: 1270


« on: November 27, 2016, 04:12:30 pm »

Doing another set of videos. This time, I'm focusing on trying to improve my performance in R+ starts. In the current environment, one of the most punishing things that new or low skill players face is going first in R+. At he same time, most matches currently played in EIR are going to be R+ matches. As such, I've decided to look at a collection of replays and see what I can learn from analyzing the R+ encounters of other players.

Hopefully, this can help me out (and maybe some others) so that I'm not always hoping someone else goes first.

Learning to R+

If you do happen to watch, please tell me where my analysis is incorrect or where you'd disagree with what I have to say. I do want his to be a series for discussion and learning.
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It's like saying "i can understand his concerns that fire breathing dragons live in far away lands"
americans dont dodge wars.
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tank130 Offline
Sugar Daddy
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Posts: 8889


« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2016, 06:52:10 pm »

Good job
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Geez, while Wind was banned I forgot that he is, in fact, totally insufferable
I'm not going to lie Tig, 9/10 times you open your mouth, I'm overwhelmed with the urge to put my foot in it.
TheVolskinator Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2016, 07:59:33 pm »

If I may offer critique, I believe your analysis is suffering from 'Volsk Syndrome'; a little on the long-winded side. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's something I noticed.

I think that these videos might turn out a little better if you tried watching the fight as it occurred, and then went back and analyzed the engagement piece by piece. As a viewer I caught myself skipping ahead to try and get to the shooty bits.

Another interesting idea might be to look at the transition from one to two players; did team A get stomped hard 1v1, but the second group of players joined, and the game became much more even/a massive turnaround came to pass; something like that. There is certainly something to be gained from learning how to react to the opening moments of a fight, how to turn someone's strat against them (i.e.; someone vs. Shab's clowncar start; noting that and bringing on your mines early to try and slow down his momentum).

Irregardless of my nitpicking, it's good to see someone making shoutcasts for EiR again. Keep up the work.
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Quote from: tank130
I want to ensure we have a 100% decision on the process before we do the wipe.
If not, then I wipe, then someone gets something they shouldn't, then it gets abused, then the shit hits the fan and then I ban shab.

Getting EiR:R Released on Steam

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aeroblade56 Offline
Development
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Posts: 3871



« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2016, 01:26:11 pm »

Should learn to C++
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You are welcome to your opinion.

You are also welcome to be wrong.
Tachibana Offline
NotADev
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Posts: 1270


« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2016, 06:49:09 pm »

Third episode up. Took volsk advice and did analysis after initial gameplay.
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Tachibana Offline
NotADev
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Posts: 1270


« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2016, 10:16:13 pm »

Episode 4 is up.
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Tachibana Offline
NotADev
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Posts: 1270


« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2017, 03:03:10 am »

Im wondering, would people prefer I continue this series or prefer full shoutcasts (or neither cause I have an annoying nasal voice)

Advantages of continuing this is that its easier to find games to cast(doest matter if its a stomp or a bunch of noobs, just has to be r+). More informative by far and is easier to produce since they are only about 20min max. Though probably a bit of a drag for people who are already confident in their R+/understanding of EIR.

Other hand, full matches are probably more entertaining, but Im kinda dull over a 40m -1h span. (Not everyone can be the wind/aero dream team). So less content, but larger viewing time.
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TheVolskinator Offline
Administrator / Lead Developer
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2017, 08:00:46 am »

Gib full cast.

I want to be told how bad I am as I whip myself etc.

Bad Volsky. BAD!
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CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2017, 08:19:16 am »

I think maybe go on a case by case basis?  Maybe watch the game once before casting and if it is an all-action affair which you think will hold attention for the long haul, do the whole game, otherwise just the R mode part of it?  Like you say, not all games are exciting all the way through, but you can still learn things from the way those games start
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1. New tactics? it's like JAWS, first one in the water dies

RCA-land where shells fall like raindrops and the Captain is an invincible god
Tachibana Offline
NotADev
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Posts: 1270


« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2017, 10:12:44 pm »

Episode 5 is up.
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CrazyWR Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3616


« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2017, 09:23:49 am »

Cool, thanks.  You made some very good points.  I'm not very good at doing mortar smoke honestly.  And I definitely got lucky multiple times (first them hitting the mine and secondly with the building not coming down on my troops).

I'm not really a fan of using a jeep in starting callins because it provides limited offensive firepower in a situation where pop is at a premium.  You only get so many units and I'd rather use it on other things.  Scouting is important, but that can be somewhat neutralized by advancing slowly and carefully and TOGETHER.

As for having a 7 pop callin...I only have 8 pop callins typically.  Probably could have called off the 1 man flamer and pulled on something, but unlike what seems to be the majority of the mod I don't have low pop callins because the callin timers get absurd by the end of the game if you play like that and I HATE waiting for units to come on by the end of the game for over a minute.  

The reason I use the mortar is because I believe that you need indirect fire in an opening callin.  Whether it is a sniper or a mortar, you have to have something to counter an axis mortar if they start with it.  The amount of times I've seen the enemy start with support weapons and just sit there and pick me apart with a mortar I can't counter is far too high so I make it a priority to have something to counter that.  I'm also not very good with microing snipers so I prefer to start with a mortar.

Just wanted to offer my point of view for discussion if anyone cared. 
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Hicks58 Offline
Development
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Posts: 5343



« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2017, 11:55:45 am »

That's why a one jeep start is so powerful.

So long as you actually have the hard counters for your enemy's core in your company, you can see what they've got then just bring in a force hand picked to wreck them.

Until you come across somebody with the same idea, which usually leads to a bike and jeep benny-hills style chase for the next 4 minutes.

Good for first person R+, meh at best for meeting as you can tailor your team's cores to cover all bases with enough strength.
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I mean I know Obama was the first one in EiR to get a card. and tbfh the Race card is pretty OP. but Romney has the K.K.K., those guys seem to camo anywhere. So OP units from both sides.
At the end of the day, however, stormtroopers finally got the anal invasion with a cactus they have richly deserved for years.
Tachibana Offline
NotADev
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Posts: 1270


« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2017, 11:05:04 pm »

Today we have what is probably the final chapter of learning to R+ as I show the 5 lessons learned from the previous Learning to R+ videos put together to help a scrub win an R+.

Volume kinda low

Also, I want to thank XC-42, Volsk, Fabrug, Skaffa and Crazy for letting me pick apart their gameplay in the previous 5 videos. Hopefully they didn't mind and equally I hope that everyone found these R+ videos informative or at the very least entertaining.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 11:21:22 pm by Tachibana » Logged
Bear Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 901



« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2017, 03:20:08 am »

Very nicely done but unfortunately I do not understand the English slang of the speaker. The speaker gets more and more quieter in between and when he answers questions he suddenly talks very fast.

For non-native English speakers like myself, it's very hard to follow his explanations, but for people with a talent for English, it probably will not be a problem.

It's great that he tries so hard to explain the game. Many Thanks!
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Brothers stand tall!

Erst die Heimat, dann die Ferne.
Erst die Erde, dann die Sterne.
Tachibana Offline
NotADev
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Posts: 1270


« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2017, 04:30:57 am »

Thank you very much for the feedback. I'll take some time in the future to add subtitles to the videos. They will unfortunately only be in english though.
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Batgirl Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 115



« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 02:47:14 pm »

Watching that video google suggested me the "worlds fastest talking man singing michael jacksons Bad in 20 seconds"

LOL Cheesy
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