EIR:R Secrets Revealed - 1: Prestige Point System

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[salan]

EIR:R Secrets Revealed - 1: Prestige Point System

This system is our representation of your pull and weight within your army's structure.  To have prestige amongst your peers, your quartermasters and your superiors.  To be able to use your earned battlefield experience and reputation to get you what you want, when you want it.  You call in your favors, as in real life, yet need to constantly earn the right to do so.

The Prestige Point (PP) System is a major part of EIR:R.  Prestige points replace both CPs and RBs. The reason behind this change was that CPs and RBs were promoting strong overpowered companies.  This in turn rewarded 'grinders' and penalized casual players.

PPs will be gained in a similar way as we now generate CPs and RBs.  However, while CP gain was limited to a certain number a day, PP gain will not be. Instead, PP will have diminishing returns over the course of a week.  So while you can play 7 games in a week for full PP gain (5 per battle), if you continued playing games that week, it would gradually diminish.  The next 7 games would only give you 4 per battle, and any after that you would receive only 3 per battle.

PP will be spent on:
- Doctrine trees
- Advantages (resource bonuses amongst them)
- Veterancy
- Availability of units.

The biggest change is that PP spending will be what we call a 'point soak' or a point of attrition.  With CPs at present, once you have filled your doctrine there is nothing more to spend them on.  PPs will alter the equation by being required constantly - for example, a Tiger tank that was purchased (using normal resources *and* Prestige for availability) cannot just be replaced as easily when it is lost.

Now the player's have a choice:  Do I keep saving PPs for 'that doctrine ability' or do I replace the Tiger?  Or do they need to spend PPs on purchasing a resource advantage?  What the PP system allows us to do is have players experience persistence in many different ways.  They could spend PP to push into their doctrine choices, or perhaps spend PP to expand the size of their army through supply or resource bonus's; or even spend the PP and watch their company grow into an incredibly experienced group.

Stay tuned for the upcoming EIR:R Secrets section on Newb Advantages, and the EIR:R release, coming soon!

[salan]

welcome all, questions?

[Snarks]

Does that mean doctrine abilities are temporary unless the person keeps gaining PP to keep that doctrine?

[MannfredvonRitter]

EIR:R Secrets Revealed - 1: Prestige Point System

[Snip]

There are some issues I have with this system:

Positives:
Stops overpowered builds
Stops old companies from having such a large advantage over newer companies
Dynamic
More choice
Rewards Casual Players


Cons:
Points required for units will result in even greater avoidance of certain opponants
Will result in even greater unwillingness to play with new people, for fear of losing a unit which may be in the short term irreplaceable
Once doctrines are maxed out with PP's, the odds are the same inbalance issues will start again, possibly worse, as only maxed out players will be using tigers/king tigers.
Still results in a system harsh to new companies.
Punishes consistent players


If I could make a suggestion it would be to take points away from units, OR instead have points just for the ability to purchase the unit and once this has been done it can be purchased infinitely.

Vehicles which often rarely see the field as it is, would become even less viable.

"Do I buy a tiger which will most likely and definitely under this system be hunted to its destruction at any cost, or do I accrue a permanent increase in doctrine or resource abilities?"

I'm fairly certain that all this will do is result in no more Tigers/King Tigers, by the sounds of it I can't help but feel that Wehr will be most severely punished by this, or do PP points need to be spent on calliopes, pershings etc?

Mod Action: No  need to quote the entire first post when you are the 3rd person to reply. 

[EIRRMod]

No, Doctrines are permanent when purchased.

[EIRRMod]

Still results in a system harsh to new companies.

There are other systems in place that compensate for new players.

The PP cost for units depends on its rarity, and how many you have in reserve.
This will be covered in later revelations.

[stumpster]

Does that mean doctrine abilities are temporary unless the person keeps gaining PP to keep that doctrine?

Doctrine abilities are as they are now.  Once you get them, you keep them.

Naturally, to offset what vonRitter is worried about (players ignoring Tigers, other PP units) the different PP areas will cost different amounts.

Rewards Casual Players

Punishes consistent players

In your opinion, what is casual players vs consistent players?

[MannfredvonRitter]

Does that mean doctrine abilities are temporary unless the person keeps gaining PP to keep that doctrine?

Doctrine abilities are as they are now.  Once you get them, you keep them.

Naturally, to offset what vonRitter is worried about (players ignoring Tigers, other PP units) the different PP areas will cost different amounts.

Rewards Casual Players

Punishes consistent players

In your opinion, what is casual players vs consistent players?

I say a casual player is a person who plays a few times a week, consistent player plays a few games a day.

I think that such a system punishes active players and when used in other various games, similar ideas kill games.

I'll throw in an example to show my point clearer:

Player A:
Plays 7 games a week (casual). Player A loses his Tiger every game, but he gets 5 points, can re-buy his tiger ever game with some left over.

Player B:
Plays 21 games a week (consistant). Player B also loses his Tiger every game, so as a result ultimately ends up in exactly the same position as Player A. Player B would be annoyed by all this extra effort he puts in, which isn't rewarded. Player A is however happy, despite putting in less time to play, he is on the same footing as Player B.

Conclusion:
Player B stops playing as much, because when he does, he loses his tiger/vet and ultimately gains nothing from the battle. Now feel free to substitute tiger for pershing/calliope whatever it may be which costs points.

Player A isn't encouraged to play more, because his optimal playtime is 7 a week anyways.

[jackmccrack]

Solution: Stop losing your Tiger.

[anthony210]

[Snip]

@MannfredvonRitter:

Do you honestly think a Tiger or King Tiger should be able to be replaced every time it gets destroyed?  The whole point is to make losing a tiger or king tiger a big deal again, compared to now where you just buy a new one if it gets destroyed.

I like this idea!

Mod Action: Again, no need to have a 3 level quote of the post one or two before you. A simple "@[Name of poster before you]" will suffice.

[Wildfire]

Solution: Stop losing your Tiger.

good solutin :claps:

[anthony210]

Also remember you dont just "stop" getting PP after 7 games, there is just diminishing returns.  So you will still have something to gain when playing more than 7 games a week.

[MannfredvonRitter]

Veterans will love the idea, new players will hate it.

[anthony210]

New players will be fine...  Even if they manage to lose their heavy tanks every single game they can replace them and still have some PP left over to save for doctrine abilities and other stuff.

I really do not see any reason they wouldnt like it.

[gamesguy5]

Do you honestly think a Tiger or King Tiger should be able to be replaced every time it gets destroyed?  The whole point is to make losing a tiger or king tiger a big deal again, compared to now where you just buy a new one if it gets destroyed.

I like this idea!

Yes, because tigers are balanced by their massive cost.  They are not super powerful or anything like that.

In fact, the only effective use for the KT atm is suiciding it every game.

[anthony210]

You can play just as well without a tiger or king tiger as you can with one, sometimes better.

King Tigers are pretty powerfull, as are Tigers.  A Tiger owned by a blitz player with HEAT rounds is a beast.  German Steel King Tigers are extremely powerfull as well. 

Though as I said before if for some reason you were unable to purchase a new one its still very much viable to play with a Panther instead.

[RikiRude]

or an army or P4s, man I've been fighting a lot of P4s lately.

[MysthalinTLS]

As long as it costs 1 or 2 PPs, I think needing to pay for a Tiger Resuply shouldn't be a problem.

[gungunx]

we will just have  to wait and see the system in action . we cannot tell anything about it right now. paper is one thing and experience is other

[DBSights]

Universal currency,
spendable on doctrines, RB's, veterency.
No limit on the amount of VPs gained per day.

Interesting, creative, and unique ideas to be certain.

... besides the cost for "prestige" units, which is actually a novel creation.

:/