updated vet discussion

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[Malevolence]

i just played against one yesterday but yea, i've seen quite a few actually. i think we'll see more with the bonuses as people start putting it into pe fuel.

Yeah and you blew it up with your pocket 88s

[panzerjager1943]

Salan, +10 range at each vet level is huge. Panther already is the highest range tank other than the Firefly. At most it should be +5 at vet2, and +5 at vet3 (range will be 57.5, which is STILL MORE than a Firefly. Currently, you're increasing it's range to 67.5!! That's more than AT guns, and the Marder.)

Also I'm starting to agree heavy tanks should get more benefit. I know I explained to you how a 5% bonus on a high-health unit is just about as good as a 15% bonus on a low health unit, but Heavy Tank veterancy costs alot of PP. Perhaps increase the benefits to 7-10%.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

i'd rather the pp requirement be lowered... :/

[SaintPauli]

Panther: Why is the vet not the same and why is the PE vet so much better???

that's subjective.

Wanna do a poll on that?

5% on a item that has HUGE stats is pretty even with 10-15% on something that has smaller stats,
 

No 5% is pointless. Its half of ONE penetrating shot from an AT gun. All the good players agree on the fact that the Ace was borderline effective.  With the current crappy vet + PP cost increase + useful things to spend PPs on it is useless. Normal axis tanks also sufferd a major blow with the skirt nerf. Maby a price increase on manned AT will help balance both.

It is still however way better than the normal Tiger and Panther but that is a problem with the cost of those units (PE panther vet will make that one very very usefull if not OP).

Salan, +10 range at each vet level is huge. Panther already is the highest range tank other than the Firefly. At most it should be +5 at vet2, and +5 at vet3 (range will be 57.5, which is STILL MORE than a Firefly. Currently, you're increasing it's range to 67.5!! That's more than AT guns, and the Marder.)

Also I'm starting to agree heavy tanks should get more benefit. I know I explained to you how a 5% bonus on a high-health unit is just about as good as a 15% bonus on a low health unit, but Heavy Tank veterancy costs alot of PP. Perhaps increase the benefits to 7-10%.

Lol. Why couldn’t you just agree with me when we did this the first time. 

[SaintPauli]

Cover ability: How has this been implemented? Is it still different depending on assault/normal troops? Does it change on Storm Troopers if they buy MG44?

[panzerjager1943]

Well, half of an AT gun shot is still 1 more AT gun shot, as you can't fire half-shots.
Anyhow. I'll be discussing some things with Salan. He seems to have some err.. inconsistencies. Most likely only "typos", while the plan is still the same (like Assault Bonus is going in, just that it's been neglected from the writeup.)

[EliteGrens]

Please do it, cover ability is freaking useless for units like KCH!

[Smokaz]

Cover abilities for infantry with mp44s is essentially unfavorable, as this weapon is best used on the move.

[salan]

Cover abilities for infantry with mp44s is essentially unfavorable, as this weapon is best used on the move.

For an ability that has no NEGATIVES, how is it unfavorable?  I was unable to do the assault option in this release, panzerjager will help me put them in soon at which point it will probably change to the either/or.

[Smokaz]

Well its LESS favorable than say a similarily strong buff from achieving vet 3 catered to that unit's type. Putting mp44s behind green cover at anything other than point blank range is a pretty bad move, they will be shooting less and dealing little damage. For a vet 3 g43, extra reduced incoming fire is great as these guys are best used from cover at long distance. I just think that something better eventually should be added for them, I realize its quite a workload for you guys but you still want input right?

[SaintPauli]

Well, half of an AT gun shot is still 1 more AT gun shot, as you can't fire half-shots.

No. Depending on the no of bounces earlier it might not even be 1 shot. It doesn’t matter if you have 75 or 150 HP left if the last shot penetrates. Same thing around the 40% mark where you are prone to engine damage.

Anyhow. I'll be discussing some things with Salan. He seems to have some err.. inconsistencies. Most likely only "typos", while the plan is still the same (like Assault Bonus is going in, just that it's been neglected from the writeup.)

Sounds good that some of the inconsistencies will be fixed (Werh needs regen) and that cover bonus will be changed to an assault bonus for assault troops.

[salan]

Hahah i will NEVER be sold that wehr needs regen, never.. MUhaha all your regen are belong to us!

[TheDeadlyShoe]

All the good players agree on the fact that the Ace was borderline effective.

...

If the Ace was 'borderline effective' than the panther, pershing, jagdpanther and king tiger were not worth taking. But they clearly were.

[SaintPauli]

All the good players agree on the fact that the Ace was borderline effective.

...

If the Ace was 'borderline effective' than the panther, pershing, jagdpanther and king tiger were not worth taking. But they clearly were.

No they were not. 

[TheDeadlyShoe]

so why is it only the TA you guys keep talking about

and why did every wehrmacht and their granny go terror and take a TA

[Smokaz]

Because it was new unit which usually wasnt available with a cool skin and a nerdily attractive "Tigah ACEEE" feeling to it?

The tiger ace was a big failure, just like the other heavy tanks were/atm without godly veterancy. (Except for the KT)

King Tiger - Ostwinds, Stuh's and to a lesser degree the Mark IV are the heroes of the reich. These are armor units that when used in conjunction with other wehrmacht stuff completely rape your enemy.

Shreks, paks, a ostwind/stuh and some mgs are all you need as front line wehr forces backing up a mortar or a nebel. And of course a huge amount of volk blob recrew callins in your support tab.

Fact is, other than the initial two weeks I didnt see any jagdpanthers from anyone else than myself. And the replay section is literally CROWDED with replays who show just how pathetic the ace is against competent opponents.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

all those replays were posted by the same people 

[SaintPauli]

all those replays were posted by the same people 

Noob stomping with the Ace doesn’t make it godly… 

[TheDeadlyShoe]

No shit. I play with (rather than against) more newbies than you guys do, I can guarantee that.   

the tiger ace is too damn strong for its pop and raising its pop will make it unusable

so like i said in my thread...take it out of the game

[gamesguy2]

Salan, +10 range at each vet level is huge. Panther already is the highest range tank other than the Firefly. At most it should be +5 at vet2, and +5 at vet3 (range will be 57.5, which is STILL MORE than a Firefly. Currently, you're increasing it's range to 67.5!! That's more than AT guns, and the Marder.)

I disagree.  Panthers are overpriced to begin with, and unlike the firefly it cannot spot for itself.   In order to utilize the 67.5 range, you'd have to have a forward deployed unit, which can be destroyed and deny the panther LOS.

You can't deny a firefly+cmd tank sight by blowing up a forward observer.

If its changed to +5 range, then it should gain +10 sight at vet 2/3.