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Author Topic: Pak38, the Root of All Evil  (Read 39188 times)
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MannfredvonRitter Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 375


« Reply #160 on: March 31, 2009, 06:06:10 am »

Good luck chasing down a nebel/stuka with rifles/rangers/airborne. You just won't kill them in time, maybe airborne vs nebel wiht the satchel charge, but who doesn't get an LMG/HMG to cover the nebel?

Wehr sniper does not get eaten by the ami sniper, the odds of either surviving are 50/50. And yeah, good luck killing a stuka with a howitzer/cali. Or actually having enough range to hit a stuka/neb with a 25 pdr.

It's an even fight between snipers but at least previously, once vet entered in to it the Ami sniper was the superior counter sniper.
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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #161 on: March 31, 2009, 06:10:10 am »

Wait, how is the allied sniper a better counter-sniper with the exact same stats, just lower ROF? If you're bringing in vet into this table, take into account the wehr snipers better ability to pressure due to the fact he can heal at vet 1, and fires faster so he can kill enemy support weapons faster, etc. etc.

If you can't outrun a 3 speed(4 with fire up that's temporary) infantry unit with something like a stuka(5.2 speed, IIRC), you're doing something wrong. I wonder how rangers ever get close enough to your nebel to actually kill it, what with there being all these wonderful rush-stoppers like HMGs and LMGs that the rangers need to deal with first(gives you time to get away) in order to kill the neb.
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DemonicTruism Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 34


« Reply #162 on: March 31, 2009, 06:14:23 am »

Wait, how is the allied sniper a better counter-sniper with the exact same stats, just lower ROF? If you're bringing in vet into this table, take into account the wehr snipers better ability to pressure due to the fact he can heal at vet 1, and fires faster so he can kill enemy support weapons faster, etc. etc.

If you can't outrun a 3 speed(4 with fire up that's temporary) infantry unit with something like a stuka(5.2 speed, IIRC), you're doing something wrong. I wonder how rangers ever get close enough to your nebel to actually kill it, what with there being all these wonderful rush-stoppers like HMGs and LMGs that the rangers need to deal with first(gives you time to get away) in order to kill the neb.

You suicide rush the nebel with a squad or two of rangers. Enough get through to kill the arty. It's really frustrating when it happens.

And if you drop AB on top of a stuka, it gets fucked before you have time to react.
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Mysthalin Offline
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #163 on: March 31, 2009, 06:23:20 am »

I don't know how you manage to miss the plane sound, the green smoke, the 10 second drop time, and actualy stay 30 seconds in the same place with the stuka for them to precision-land on your stuka(don't forget paradropping spread), and then actualy stay there to take enough shots to die from those RRs that do 62.5 dmg/shot 125 dmg/volley/squad :S 2 squads can't instagib the stuka, and if you missed 3 RR squads coming behind you, your own fault.

Rangers - one ranger squad will not manage to get through an HMG to a nebelwerfer and gib it in time. It will have to use up it's fireup just to get within bazooking range of the nebel, then actually hit the nebel. There's no chance the nebel won't have gotten away if the rangers stop to deal with the HMG, and if the rangers don't stop to deal with the HMG, they get pinned before they kill the nebel. Two ranger squads might instagib the nebel by bypassing the HMG with fire-up, but they'd be forced off-field or killed after they accomplish that. 600 mp 180 mun(imagining they only had bazookas, more likely to also have thompsons) forced off for a unit that cost 450 mp 120 FU(confirmation please, don't know EiRR nebel pricing) seems a pretty fair trade.
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Killer344 Offline
The Inquisitor
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Posts: 6904



« Reply #164 on: March 31, 2009, 07:04:33 am »

cost 450 mp 120 FU(confirmation please, don't know EiRR nebel pricing)

and 35mu...
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If I get shot and it's a gay medic fixing me up, he's not gonna be fondling my balls while he does it. You can't patch a chest wound and suck a cock at the same time.
DemonicTruism Offline
EIR Regular
Posts: 34


« Reply #165 on: March 31, 2009, 07:44:47 am »

I don't know how you manage to miss the plane sound, the green smoke, the 10 second drop time, and actualy stay 30 seconds in the same place with the stuka for them to precision-land on your stuka(don't forget paradropping spread), and then actualy stay there to take enough shots to die from those RRs that do 62.5 dmg/shot 125 dmg/volley/squad :S 2 squads can't instagib the stuka, and if you missed 3 RR squads coming behind you, your own fault.

Rangers - one ranger squad will not manage to get through an HMG to a nebelwerfer and gib it in time. It will have to use up it's fireup just to get within bazooking range of the nebel, then actually hit the nebel. There's no chance the nebel won't have gotten away if the rangers stop to deal with the HMG, and if the rangers don't stop to deal with the HMG, they get pinned before they kill the nebel. Two ranger squads might instagib the nebel by bypassing the HMG with fire-up, but they'd be forced off-field or killed after they accomplish that. 600 mp 180 mun(imagining they only had bazookas, more likely to also have thompsons) forced off for a unit that cost 450 mp 120 FU(confirmation please, don't know EiRR nebel pricing) seems a pretty fair trade.

AB happens now and again, but I've had rangers run through chatteau with a full defensive complement and into the field behind it in order to kill my Nebel. If they want the nebel dead, they can kill it.
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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #166 on: March 31, 2009, 09:47:09 am »

it's blatantly impossible unless you didn't have a single HMG in your company covering the nebel, or you did not move your nebel at all during that daring charge.
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Killer344 Offline
The Inquisitor
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Posts: 6904



« Reply #167 on: March 31, 2009, 10:23:38 am »

1 hmg isnīt enough to stop 2 rangers with smgs + nades... not even two.
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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #168 on: March 31, 2009, 10:30:46 am »

in a chateaux... well, yeah, you're right, they probably would have killed that one HMG. Though it should have still provided enough time for the neb to GTFO. Not to mention the ammount of resources put into the push, and the popcap - you should have a bit more than 1 HMG covering :S.
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TheDeadlyShoe Offline
Weapon of Math Destruction
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1399


« Reply #169 on: March 31, 2009, 10:57:37 am »

Two Ranger squads with Thompsons, Bazookas and Grenades? Getting kinda high priced now.

If you fire up to get in then how are you getting out?

Plus, it takes 3 bazooka hits (not shots) to kill a Nebel.  Considering misses, you can't just dash into range and kill the thing... you have to close in or hang around.

In practice, charging MGs with fire up gets a lot of Rangers killed even if it works. Flanking is still the rule of the day.

Also in practice, it's pretty damn rare for there only to be one HMG between you and a nebel. There are bound to be infantry units or a tank hanging around. Or layered HMGs. Or a mine.
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Killer344 Offline
The Inquisitor
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Posts: 6904



« Reply #170 on: March 31, 2009, 11:08:20 am »

The smgs are more than enough to take out the nebel weapon itself.

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Mysthalin Offline
Tired King of Stats
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Posts: 9028


« Reply #171 on: March 31, 2009, 11:30:32 am »

I invite you to destroy a nebel itself with just SMGs without losing the rangers you  just sent through the enemy front line in a daring dash of death -.-
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Mgallun74 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1478


« Reply #172 on: March 31, 2009, 11:37:17 am »

i have easily removed the crew off a neb with rangers, but i have never been able to say destroy the weapon with just smgs?  especially if its decrewed...?
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TheDeadlyShoe Offline
Weapon of Math Destruction
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1399


« Reply #173 on: March 31, 2009, 11:43:44 am »

Nebels can in fact be damaged and destroyed by small arms fire.  It takes a bit though.  Even if you do manage to get close enough to the nebel with thompsons you're still relying on the other guys having nothing onmap to stop you, because it just takes too damn long to run down a fleeing nebel and then kill it. And that's if it doesn't just stay within HMG arc...
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Mgallun74 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1478


« Reply #174 on: March 31, 2009, 11:49:14 am »

how do u get smgs, or say bars or hmgs to kill a decrewed gun? i have tried it, to make them shoot at a certain spot but they do nothing, only time it works is if i have zooks..
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Draken Offline
Chess master
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1850



« Reply #175 on: March 31, 2009, 12:09:00 pm »

Try attack order?

Jeez...

And lol bitching about immortals nebels... howie/ calli airborne with rrs, suicidal m10 rush, there are many options... Try to kill calli in cost effecient way without offmaps...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009, 12:48:04 pm by Draken » Logged
TheDeadlyShoe Offline
Weapon of Math Destruction
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1399


« Reply #176 on: March 31, 2009, 12:11:23 pm »

Use the Attack order and (right?) click on the gun after it's decrewed. Don't use Attack Ground.
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Mgallun74 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1478


« Reply #177 on: March 31, 2009, 12:48:17 pm »

Use the Attack order and (right?) click on the gun after it's decrewed. Don't use Attack Ground.

thanks, u helped, draken didnt. Roll Eyes
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RikiRude Offline
Donator
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Posts: 4376



« Reply #178 on: March 31, 2009, 01:21:21 pm »

I've been playing COH since it first came out and I never used attack order up until a week or two ago someone explained to me that's how you use small arms to take out AT guns and such, now I use it all the time!
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Quote from: Killer344
Killer344: "Repent: sory no joke i just had savage diorea"
... or a fat ass cock sucking churchill being stupid
Malevolence Offline
Donator
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Posts: 1871



« Reply #179 on: March 31, 2009, 02:09:16 pm »

Ya, who woulda thought that the attack button functioned like an attack button!

For the first few months I played CoH I thought it was just like an attack move function, then I found out it can shoot decrewed weaponry and use it all the time :p
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Quote from: Akranadas
Vet has nothing to do with unit preformance.

Quote from: Akranadas
We are serious about enforcing this, and I am sure you all want to be able to have your balance thought considered by the development team with some biased, sensationalist coming into your thread and ruining it.
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