stop lmg spaming pls

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[gamesguy2]

It shows no such thing.   A grenadier squad with one LMG does
8.3/16.3/33.1 dps at long/medium/short range against the infantry armor type(lmgs and bars have a .75 dmg modifier vs infantry).

I don't know where you're getting your MLG's DPS from, click the LMG42 button and you get 21/6/2 S/M/L, whereas BARs get 18/7/3.
Both the BAR and the LMG have 1.0 accuracy against Infantry, and .75 damage. The only difference between the two is that LMGs have a .75 accuracy modifier against moving Infantry, while BARs still have 1.0.

Are you purposely being obtuse?

When you upgrade a grenadier squad with a LMG, there's those other three dudes carrying K98s, I hear they fire on the enemy as well.

[Raio]

whatever, but the fact stays 

[BigDick]

1xlmg 75 mun (stationary less damage than a bar, high reload time, no i suppress everything) 2xbars 80 mun (more than doubled dps than the lmg, can shoot on the move, low reload time, 360° moving suppression)

try to attack with lmgs man...probably when you camp on spawn behind sandbags than the lmg may perform very good against charging vanilla riflemen

[Bubz]

Brn4meplz I think you're right with point 2.

[Baine]

Look, if you try to kill axis infantry with bars, you will fail. Use your massive amount of shermans for that.

You only suppress them from green cover, the rest is up to someone else. Like a mortar? Great idea Baine, oh thank you i know.
Baine, why do they try to compare axis infantry with allied infantry, honestly i don't know Timmy, but they will fail, because you use allied tanks to counter axis infantry. Oh i never thought of that Baine, i know Timmy.... i know.

[Latios418]

Look, if you try to kill axis infantry with bars, you will fail. Use your massive amount of shermans for that.

Massive amounts of Shermans? They're 10 fucking fuel cheaper than a Pz4. Overexaggeration at it's finest, allies can field no more Shermans than Axis can Pz4s.

You only suppress them from green cover, the rest is up to someone else. Like a mortar? Great idea Baine, oh thank you i know.

Allied mortars are generally a waste of 500 mp and a good chunk of munitions. Axis mortars are a LOT better.

[CafeMilani]

german usually have panthers or tiger or whatever, so they dont have 4 p4s in their company
baine is wrong, u can easily kill axis infantry with bars, just suppress and then kill.

[Latios418]

regardless, axis has the option to take just as many tanks as US, so saying they always outnumber is bullshit. With lv2 fu advantage you can afford a panther and four Panzer IVs, which is pretty damn good.

[Baine]

Look, when you say allied mortar sucks you obviously have no clue. It fires alot faster then the axis mortar, that means one hit on a suppressed squad and they will either retreat or lose so many men until they are out of the barrage that they won't last long.

And i know that people can field lots of P4s but a sherman has a great chance of killing a P4 and has a greater splash for infantry aswell.

I have an infantry company and only Level 1 Fuel advantage, yet i do have 3 shermans, 1 m10, 1 croc, and if i didn't have my howitzer I'd be able to buy another sherman. That's a lot of tanks, especially since most of the axis rely on few tanks and lots of infantry (especially those with 1 heavy tank).


And i honestly don't know why im arguing with you, because i try to give you options on how to put your bar to better use and you say "oh but axis mortar is better", What the hell does that have to do with a mortar and bars being a good combination? Seriously wtf?

[Latios418]

it has to do with the fact the ally mortars are terrible and on top of that are outranged and owned by axis mortars, making them a waste of resources. About the only thing they CAN do is kill suppressed troops, which means you must be on the defensive to even utilize that. Really not worth their cost.

3 Shermans, 1 m10, and a croc? Yeah, you have a ton of tanks. Oh wait... an axis player can have Panther, 3x PzIV, and a Stug with the same amount of fuel.

[Akranadas]

A lot faster.... huh?

Allied Mortar Normal Barrage - Wind Up    2.2
                                         Wind Down    1
                                         Fire Aim Time    0.75—0.25
Allied Mortar Barrage Ability - Wind Up    2.2
                                        Wind Down    1
                                        Fire Aim Time    0.75—0
Wehr Mortar Normal Barrage - Wind Up    2.5
                                        Wind Down    1.5
                                        Fire Aim Time    1—1
Wehr Mortar Barrage Ability - Wind Up    2.5 .
                                        Wind Down    1.5
                                   Fire Aim Time    0—0


Oh, I didn't know .3 seconds was a lot.

[Baine]

Ok, i probably have a different view on the tank thing because as Axis i was mostly Defensive, relying on like 2 P4s and 1 or 2 Ostwinds.

But still, you try and counter Axis infantry with Tanks, if you attack lmgs with rifles, you will be doomed, i know that. But there's also support weapons, as stated before.

[Unkn0wn]

I have one Tiger Ace, 2 P4, 1 Stug, 1 ostwinds and a puma =).

[Baine]

I have one Tiger Ace, 2 P4, 1 Stug, 1 ostwinds and a puma =).

And how many Fuel advantages?

Btw remember, those advantages are only free for now.

[Mysthalin]

Actualy akra, it goes like this(averages, easier for comparing) :



Allied normal mortar shot :
Fire Aim Time 0.5
Wind up 2.2
FIRE
Wind down 1
Cooldown 7
Fire Aim Time 0.5
Wind up 2.2

It'll take 2.7 seconds to fire the first round, and 10.7 to fire every subsequent shot.

Axis normal mortar shot :
Fire Aim Time 1
Wind up 2.5
FIRE
Wind down 1.5
Cooldown 7
Fire Aim Time 1
Wind up 2.5

It'll take 3.5 seconds to fire the first round, and 12 to fire every subsequent shot(it's actualy better to fire a round, pack up, deploy, fire again, lol - semiauto mortar bug, sort off.)

When it's a barrage, the cooldowns both go down to 0.35 for the allied mort and 0.3 for the axis one.

So the allied mortar gets the first shot off 25 percent faster, and every subsequent one by roughly 12 percent faster... Not "a lot faster" at all.

And the ammount of damage and suppresion that's caused is rather heavily different.

Damage and suppresion table for barage abilities :

///////////////////////              60mm          81mm
Base damage                           20              36
AOE short                               1.5             1.5
AOE medium                            3.5             3.5
Max AOE                                  6                7
Damage AOE modifiers
Short                                      1                1
Medium                                  0.65            0.65
Long                                      0.5              0.5
Damage over range modifiers
Short                                     0.5             0.75
Medium                                  0.5             0.75
Long                                      0.5             0.5
Suppresion AOE caused
Short                                    0.05            0.07
Medium                                 0.025          0.053
Long                                    0.0125         0.035
Suppresion over range modifiers
Short                                      2                 2
Medium                                    1                1
Long                                      0.5              0.5
Scatter angle                           15                9
Range                                     75               85
Accuracy
Short                                     0.75             0.75
Medium                                   0.5               0.5
Long                                      0.25             0.25

Noteworthy - the allied mortar has a 2 damage modifier vs all infantry types, excluding infantry_airborne.
The axis mortar has a 0.7 damage modifier vs Infantry_heroic, so that means it injures KCH less.

From this table we can see, that even though the allied mortar has 40 base damage vs most infantry, it goes down again to 20 at all ranges due to the DoR modifier.
The axis mortar falls below the allied mortar only at long range, which is 45-85, and it causes 18 base damage, with a little wider AOE. At short to medium range, the axis mortar causes 27 base damage to all infantry.

The accuracies are the same, however the scatter angles are not. Even though both have the same chance to shoot the round to the pin-point location of the target, the allied mortar's shell will stray off considerably further than that of the axis mortar's. Couple that with the AoEs, and the possibility of an axis troop not being able to get out of an allied mortar barage becomes laughable.

The suppresion caused by an axis mortar is severely higher than that of an allied mortar, as well. The axis mortar is severely more likely to hit an enemy unit, suppress it, and thusly keep it in the barage area for the entirety of the barage, dealing more damage per shot, unless it is at long range. If we also take into account the fact allied units are of larger size than the axis ones, it becomes clear why the axis mortar seems so supperior to the allied one - each shell causes more damage due to more targets affected by the AOE and they're more likely to be affected by the AoE suppresion and damage.

Also, notice how the allied units are of lesser health per man. An axis mortar is capable of killing an allied rifleman(not squad) in 2 hits - 55 divided by 27 equals slightly more than 2, but all that is needed is putting the unit "into the red" at which point he has the chance of being critted into death on the second round.
A grenadier, however, has 80 hp, so he needs to get hit by 4 allied mortar rounds before he is killed. 80/20 is exactly 4, and unfortunately, it is not possible to put a grenadier unit "in the red" from just 3 shots.

Axis tanks are not over-whelmed by allied tanks, never have been. P4 costs a bit more than shermans do, stugs cost a bit less than M10s do. Getting an army of 4 P4s and a StuG is just as possible as an army of 4 shermans and an M10.

[Malevolence]

Sticky and Button have no real Axis equivalent. And?

Treadbreaker.

[Baine]

Sticky and Button have no real Axis equivalent. And?

Treadbreaker.

That's the equivalent of a sticky. Button would probably have its equivalent in the infantry department, namely the Slow G43.

[CafeMilani]

its called breakfailer not treatbreaker-.-

[Mgallun74]

I find it interesting that some people call BARs junk, while others think they are OP...

personally US Infrantry are useless without them, i run quite a few of them, all BAR squads have grenandes to try the suppress and grenande thingy.  alot of times the grenande just goes off in lala land and misses, but a good amount of times the German player will retreat his units, so it serves its purpose i guess.  Imho of playing US only, and using bars, they are the wrose hand held LMG.. Bren is better, MG42 is better.  especially at killing... cant count how many times i have had some unupgraded rifles pick up a bren or 2 or 2 mg42s and then just start owning German infantry..   thats just my on the field expierence and feelings, not numbers or anything... only get BARs because, well as a american thats all i can get for them.

Grenandes are useful,, but i dont use stickys..  dont run into many noob axis players, almost all of the axis players know, not to just let a rfile squad run up to them, or to just run into them without testing them first to see if they have them.  only guys i put them on are my 2 Vet3 Rifles, because they get that insane sitcky range bonus.

[Raio]

bigdick and aloha, isnt it one same adolescent ?