Airborne strafing run

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[LeoPhone]

id say just make the plane arrive like the precision strike's one.
but then the plane itself accutaly shoot(whats the reason for not doing this with precision strike btw?)

that way it will shoot after about the same time on every map, since the length of all maps is pretty much the same.

[puddin]

Again, how does your proposal address the fact that strafe is still terrible on large maps?

What Off Map is Good on any map? 

V1?  Misses Alot its a Teir 2...
Howie Off Map?  I avoid that reliably at times unless i am caught up
Firestorms, Many fire-up and run away or just in in a  direction

Off maps are not suppose to be reliable.  they are there in a panic moment and to fear the enemy away or if all the PLanets align with a full moon they are suppose to catch and gib squads but in the rare moments...
Off Maps are not ment to Kill with Reliability or 100% Effectiveness...

[gamesguy2]

Again, how does your proposal address the fact that strafe is still terrible on large maps?

What Off Map is Good on any map? 

V1?  Misses Alot its a Teir 2...
Howie Off Map?  I avoid that reliably at times unless i am caught up
Firestorms, Many fire-up and run away or just in in a  direction

Off maps are not suppose to be reliable.  they are there in a panic moment and to fear the enemy away or if all the PLanets align with a full moon they are suppose to catch and gib squads but in the rare moments...
Off Maps are not ment to Kill with Reliability or 100% Effectiveness...

You dodged the point, non-plane based offmaps are equally effective on large and small maps.  Plane based offmaps gets worse bigger the map is.  If you balance a plane based offmap for a 2v2 RTC horizontal attack, it will be utterly useless on abbe or schindel.

And firestorm is pretty much uber on every map, even with fire-up you're not going to be able to avoid the whole barrage.

[Groundfire]

thank god your a sensible rational person gamesguy

[puddin]

When i see the smoke drop on every off map i run in a direction, Barring any Lag And i rarly get caught in them because i pay attention to my Troops.  

Your Dodging the fact that No Smoke on ANY Planes would make them much more effective as you have to assess the direction its coming from and then move, Sometimes your not able to move in the direction you need to and poof your fucked either way, Ever been stuck between a hedge and moving armor?  

Red Smoke is warning and the ability to run away in time, The sound of the V1 is devastating or not devastating depending on where it lands but its warning...

Every off map has warning, The Current strafe does not have warning in half of the games played even in a 4v4 close to the edge of the map, If they Cut the corner of the map again no warning...  

So If the point is to Give people a chance My proposal Fixes everything

A.) Cutting the corner is no longer valid with a 3 second delay because infantry is moving so precise off maps... Which no one has anymore won;t be possible, Also it being instant will be taken away like EVERY OTHER OFF MAP.

B.) Large and small maps you will still be able to do a decent strike due to lack of red Smoke, Is it a Recon?  Is it a Bomb
? OR a strafe?  Catch someone thinking its a recon and they are screwed.  Send a recon combined with the Strafe and they won;t know which way to go or a bomb and a strafe... The combinations of carnage are endless but again there is a true chance to at least avoid the carnage.

[Killer344]

thank god your a sensible rational person gamesguy

?

[gamesguy2]

When i see the smoke drop on every off map i run in a direction, Barring any Lag And i rarly get caught in them because i pay attention to my Troops.  

snip rest

Firestorm will nearly always hit, it comes down too quick and suppresses on the first strike.

The issue you are avoiding is that on big maps, strafe will miss without the targetted person even seeing the plane.  I dunno about you, but I keep my troops moving all the time.  A 4-5 second delay before the plane comes on added to another 5 second delay before the plane gets into firing range adds up to a ridiculous amount of delay before the offmap hits.

10 seconds is a long time, unless you are strafing an 88, the target will likely have moved, no one stands still for 10 seconds in combat.

The issue is simple.  Under your proposed system, it takes 4-5 seconds between clicking and the strafe if you were to cut the short side of RTC.  It would take 10 seconds or possibly even more if you were strafing something in the middle of Schindel.  How do you propose to fix this issue?

id say just make the plane arrive like the precision strike's one.
but then the plane itself accutaly shoot(whats the reason for not doing this with precision strike btw?)

that way it will shoot after about the same time on every map, since the length of all maps is pretty much the same.

Leophone the precision strike works well because it's a non-directional one shot weapon.  You wouldn't be able to pick the strafe pattern if the plane came from a random direction.

The reason to not have the plane drop a bomb precisely to avoid the map size issue.  On smaller maps the plane zooms past in 1 second, on big maps the plane slowly crosses the map, but the arty still takes 4 seconds to drop no matter what.  You could be playing on French countryside where the plane has barely made it 1/10 the way across the map and the precision strike bomb will still hit the target 4 seconds after you click.

[LeoPhone]

(...)  Plane based offmaps gets worse bigger the map is.  If you balance a plane based offmap for a 2v2 RTC horizontal attack, it will be utterly useless on abbe or schindel.
(...)

length of RTC = 544,
length of schijndel = 608,
length of abbe = 608,
length of nuenen = 480

there is hardly any difference in the length of maps... so that's how the plane should fly ALWAYS. by itself.

[gamesguy2]

(...)  Plane based offmaps gets worse bigger the map is.  If you balance a plane based offmap for a 2v2 RTC horizontal attack, it will be utterly useless on abbe or schindel.
(...)

length of RTC = 544,
length of schijndel = 608,
length of abbe = 608,
length of nuenen = 480

there is hardly any difference in the length of maps... so that's how the plane should fly ALWAYS. by itself.

Again, if you make the plane come from the long side always, you cannot select the pattern of the strafe.

[LeoPhone]

but wasnt there this typhoon rocket run in the game a while ago?
it would come from your spawn and shoot it's rockets in a line. use that for strafle and bombing run too.

[gamesguy2]

but wasnt there this typhoon rocket run in the game a while ago?
it would come from your spawn and shoot it's rockets in a line. use that for strafle and bombing run too.

Again, you would not be able to choose how the ability fires.  Meaning you cannot line up the enemy army with the strafe, and would result in a huge amount of misses because you can't choose the direction of the strafe.

I don't know how to make this more clear without drawing a picture.

[LeoPhone]

but wasnt there this typhoon rocket run in the game a while ago?
it would come from your spawn and shoot it's rockets in a line. use that for strafle and bombing run too.

Again, you would not be able to choose how the ability fires.  Meaning you cannot line up the enemy army with the strafe, and would result in a huge amount of misses because you can't choose the direction of the strafe.

I don't know how to make this more clear without drawing a picture.

yeah, i thought 1st u were talking about actually making the ability work.

well too bad then, the width of the strafle run is big enough to hit one complete squad at least. and it will still kill a complete squad in most cases(+suppress!!), even if you  just target one.
precision strike, also a t2 can only take out one support weapon. leth the strafle be the same, but then vs infantry.

if it doesnt come down fast enough, increase the speed of the plane, and the range of the guns if it doesnt fire enough bullets.

[gamesguy2]

but wasnt there this typhoon rocket run in the game a while ago?
it would come from your spawn and shoot it's rockets in a line. use that for strafle and bombing run too.

Again, you would not be able to choose how the ability fires.  Meaning you cannot line up the enemy army with the strafe, and would result in a huge amount of misses because you can't choose the direction of the strafe.

I don't know how to make this more clear without drawing a picture.

yeah, i thought 1st u were talking about actually making the ability work.

well too bad then, the width of the strafle run is big enough to hit one complete squad at least. and it will still kill a complete squad in most cases(+suppress!!), even if you  just target one.
precision strike, also a t2 can only take out one support weapon. leth the strafle be the same, but then vs infantry.

if it doesnt come down fast enough, increase the speed of the plane, and the range of the guns if it doesnt fire enough bullets.

I drew a picture!



Anyways, strafe isn't wide enough to hit a full squad. I've seen strafe bullets go between two men from the same squad and hit nothing.  It also has no aoe suppression so it actually has to hit to suppress.

Precision strike has one big advantage over strafe, you can hit tanks with it and do quite a bit of damage.  It does 200 damage to all tanks and vehicles and comes down so fast it's pretty hard to avoid as long as you're targetting something that is stationary to being with.

[puddin]

OK so my only option is to Not try to change it but take it as is and deal with it broken as all Shit? 

If thats your fuckign answer i quit.

I did that with terror for 3 fuckign months, Wasn;t fun.

[LeoPhone]

NICE PICUTRE  

but just telling that the width of strafle is not wide enough would also have done the trick  
too bad it doesnt work then.. it sounded like a good idea


ofcourse.. you could just make it be two airplanes doing a strafle side by side  

OK so my only option is to Not try to change it but take it as is and deal with it broken as all Shit? 

If thats your fuckign answer i quit.

I did that with terror for 3 fuckign months, Wasn;t fun.

yeh, it still needs some fix 

[gamesguy2]

OK so my only option is to Not try to change it but take it as is and deal with it broken as all Shit? 

If thats your fuckign answer i quit.

I did that with terror for 3 fuckign months, Wasn;t fun.

Is it really that hard to read?

Two pages ago:

I am sorry killer,  But so far i have seen no one come up with a valid reason Why strafe is at all a good ability... on an already stacked doctrine... 

So far the people standing up for the strafe are all devs... And the fact that Alhoa actually agreed with me dispite our putrid hatred for one another shocked the shit out of me. 

Look I just want some valid reasons or maybe one valid reason for Strafe staying in As is. 

Saying...
"It mgiht not do anything"  ISn;t that valid of a point because on the same regard it can instagib entire squads in no cover or even yellow cover. 

Its a bit disturbing with Airborne in general how the entire point of Doctrines was to not Overbuff units such as in Armor and Blitz and Def docs how units are not overly buffed, and abilities tonned down... Then AB comes out with everything buffing AB and off maps that still gib....  without warning... 

Ok, here's one reason:

Strafing run is worthless on bigger maps and overpowered on smaller ones.  There is no easy way to fix this, as increasing the speed of the plane makes it fire far fewer shots, same with decreasing range.

I suppose I could turn it into an overwatch ability like the henschel and then reduce the damage on each pass, that's about the only way I can think of to make it balanced.

[puddin]

Why is it OLD strafe was Supression Only Whats wrong with Reveriting it to that Again so you could Rush your units in to do the Killing?  

And iF Firstorm Supresses in 1 Shoit, CHANGE IT to NEVER SUPRESS.....

Shit.. its liek you amke arguments with Broken Shit to Justify Broken Shit... In What fuckign world is that sensable.

[gamesguy2]

Why is it OLD strafe was Supression Only Whats wrong with Reveriting it to that Again so you could Rush your units in to do the Killing?  

And iF Firstorm Supresses in 1 Shoit, CHANGE IT to NEVER SUPRESS.....

Shit.. its liek you amke arguments with Broken Shit to Justify Broken Shit... In What fuckign world is that sensable.

Because the strafe change was all relic?  The suppression only strafe was deemed worthless by the CoH community and Relic changed it back(but still weaker than 1.7).

A firestorm that doesn't suppress is pretty bad as well.  This is the nature of offmaps, it either rapes or it doesn't.

[Masacree]

I liked the suppression strafe - it made it a unique offmap, instead of just an insta kill think. Also it was more counterable by taking cover.

[gamesguy2]

I liked the suppression strafe - it made it a unique offmap, instead of just an insta kill think. Also it was more counterable by taking cover.

It was all in your head, strafing run does 1/4 the dps against infantry in light cover and 1/8 the dps against infantry in heavy cover.

I'm honestly not sure why sometimes it doesn't even kill a volk squad on a road but sometimes kills vet 3 squads in cover.