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Author Topic: Fall of France..continues?  (Read 116653 times)
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rifle87654 Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 1107


« Reply #200 on: July 29, 2010, 04:53:54 am »

I still felt that the pop is too low.
The resource bonus is also too low.
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Does he have a problem?
Anyway he's hilarious.
sheffer Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 593



« Reply #201 on: July 29, 2010, 05:01:59 am »

i think all is nice, only doc trees must be tweaked.
may be u must decrease xp for killing units, usually i got a best units too fast. but with normal xp rate u always can change a doctrine. i dont know
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Senseless and ruthless.
MittinsKittens Offline
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« Reply #202 on: July 29, 2010, 06:41:44 am »

i think all is nice, only doc trees must be tweaked.
may be u must decrease xp for killing units, usually i got a best units too fast. but with normal xp rate u always can change a doctrine. i dont know
Actually, I must admit that I've been made too think about it, It does seem that we are getting the best units too quickly if we really want too. Might want to make the end stuff a bit more expensive so it doesn't come out within the first 5-10 mins Smiley
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Uunderfire Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 206


« Reply #203 on: July 29, 2010, 10:45:38 am »

I think that after some time, you have too many units. With the basics units + the doctrinal ones, you have units which are the same. But since it's the goal of this mod, I don't know...
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Mister Schmidt Offline
Lawmaker
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Posts: 5006



« Reply #204 on: July 29, 2010, 11:01:23 am »

What do I do once I've downloaded it? Place it all in CoH folder?
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LeoPhone Offline
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« Reply #205 on: July 29, 2010, 11:09:59 am »

What do I do once I've downloaded it? Place it all in CoH folder?

yes, and replace the shortcut's targets to your coh install folder in case its not default.
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salan Offline
Synergies TL2 mod!
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Posts: 6290


« Reply #206 on: July 29, 2010, 12:00:19 pm »

Actually the new factions will have a much better pricing I think to encourage use of the earlier units ..

each tier will be more expensive then they currently are, making the t4s a lot more expensive in the end, and less likely to be out super fast.

which will force more of the early war units (all the free ones are trying to be early war type units (vehicles / support) and will force specific decisions on what you want for what situation..


I personally find once a game gets really going its very easy to mass CPs...  so ya. more expensive unlocks for sure!
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MittinsKittens Offline
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« Reply #207 on: July 29, 2010, 01:38:13 pm »

Nice call Salan, exactly what I wanted to hear :3
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salan Offline
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« Reply #208 on: July 29, 2010, 05:25:30 pm »

I still want to maintain a fast paced quicker game style then not thou, so it has to be balanced.
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AmPM Offline
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Posts: 7978



« Reply #209 on: July 29, 2010, 05:29:27 pm »

make phases, you can only progress so far till a certain time?
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LeoPhone Offline
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« Reply #210 on: July 29, 2010, 05:36:49 pm »

salan - i wonder, dont u think its better to remove all the different kinds of units (normal AB, RR ab, assault AB, sticky AB) and instead have people just buy one kind of each unit. new weapons can be bought via the upgrades button they use in vcoh. on the unit itself. prices are kept same. example: normal AB cost 25mp, RR AB cost 35mp so the RR upgrade costs 10 mp.

what this adds is a lot better organising and squads that have already fought can also buy the upgrades once you unlock it. upgrades can only be bought at the HQ but have no build time. shermans will also be seen again without mineflails - it looks kinda ridiculus atm.

ps: do you have any plans of adding healing options for infantry?

pps: this might be quite a lot of work, but if u show me once how its done i could help u with it. i can do basic c++ know quite enough about computers and have already been fooling around with my minimod in crosix.
i also got A LOT of free time and im getting quite bored Tongue
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 05:42:03 pm by LeoPhone » Logged
salan Offline
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« Reply #211 on: July 29, 2010, 06:20:26 pm »

salan - i wonder, dont u think its better to remove all the different kinds of units (normal AB, RR ab, assault AB, sticky AB) and instead have people just buy one kind of each unit. new weapons can be bought via the upgrades button they use in vcoh. on the unit itself. prices are kept same. example: normal AB cost 25mp, RR AB cost 35mp so the RR upgrade costs 10 mp.

personally, no.. I wanted to create a game that reminded me more of total annihilation then of dawnofwar/coh upgrades.  I wanted the units to come onto the field the same as they would be at any point in the game, lock stock and barrel.  You see the unit, you KNOW what it is, not having to guess what it could become.

Quote
what this adds is a lot better organising and squads that have already fought can also buy the upgrades once you unlock it. upgrades can only be bought at the HQ but have no build time. shermans will also be seen again without mineflails - it looks kinda ridiculus atm.


well I wouldn't say it offers BETTER organizing, the organization based on squad type is just as good if not better, in a different pre-text.  Shermans only have mineflails on one of their versions, the 75mm, and while it may look ridiculous, it is extremely functional. There is also the 76 sherman, the easy-8 sherman, the jumbo sherman, the 105 sherman and the 75mm Infantry Support Sherman that don't have mineflails.

Quote
ps: do you have any plans of adding healing options for infantry?

All HQ's currently have a .10 healing radius around them at this time, retreat to base Wink

Quote
pps: this might be quite a lot of work, but if u show me once how its done i could help u with it. i can do basic c++ know quite enough about computers and have already been fooling around with my minimod in crosix.
i also got A LOT of free time and im getting quite bored Tongue

Heh, the last week and a bit I have been increasing the base games over all feel (hq's building by themselves, healing aura's, little tweaks here and there that improve the game play) and fixing errors in it.   I haven't touched balance much, a few tweaks here and there but ultimately what I have been doing is finishing what I had started last year, and had started adding in new tank models.

what I did this week (i only sat down to work on us infantry for the last two days) is completely added in a new faction of units.  it literally took only a few hours to get the rgds in (soldiers/support/armor), the more time consuming part will be the doctrine unlock tie ins, the restrictions on units due to doctrines, and of course the decisions on pricing, as well as pass overs to make sure all units have the right armor types, accessories they are suppose to have, the right amount of men for their tier, the right population, and costs both purchase and doctrine unlock.

Ultimately the original and continuing development decision is simple:

-remove VCOH global abilities (firestorm / field repair).
-the only offmap is handled through spotters and tries to mimic real life artillery fire more then gamey coh artillery.
-remove VCOH unit upgrades, units come as is from start to finish.  once a player knows his targets, he knows what to expect.
-remove VCOH abilities (suppression fire, button, tread breaker, canistershot , slow, etc etc) weapons and weapon systems only have their stock damage out put.
-remove all benificial aura's except the command squads bonus to LOS and stealth detection.
-change VCOH stealth system to a more realistic re-stealthing mode, and stationary ambush system.
-remove VCOH ingame economy for a EIR limited resource feel.
-remove capturing through the action of capturing, auto capture, auto build bases.
-remove static defenses other then emplacements or trenches.  They only slow the game down.
-limit spam, units can only be fielded in limited numbers at a time. (new version will be set at 2 for all units)
-Mimic EIR's out of game launcher through breaking the doctrine trees and CP gains through territory control, as well as tiered restrictions on progression. ie: 3 tier 1s, 1 tier 4 per section, limits on overall heavy tank purchases.
-do not change weapon ranges beyond the current maxes, shooting across the map is out.
(weapon reload and accuracy is where FOF is a total conversion from VCOH).
-Units will die, quicker then Vcoh.
-Units will progress in vet, quicker then Vcoh.
-No Global buffs in doctrines as in the old version of EIR.  (HE rounds: 25% damage to all tanks)
-all doctrine choices are a unit type unlock.  this simulates progression of the war, from early 1930 to the end of the war.  If you don't own territory to naturally progress CPs you must fight to gain them and learn by your successes and losses.  Mimicking real life research progression.  The models and types of unlocks will be altered as units become available.  US_Infantry right now is suppose to have early war units, although the only tanks available are shermans until someone gets the grants out.
-Factions (not doctrines) will have a thread of simularity within themselves.  IE: Volksturm plays on its strengths and leaves it with a weakness.  Us_Infantry removes the US's airborne and the armor's heavy tanks.. again, a thread of organization.  To do this correctly each side will need many different types of factions, some will mimic each other in different ways, but that is ultimately what I am going for.  

your choices of faction will be followed by choices in unlocking infantry / support or armor and when and how to use them in combination.  Each player can essentially make a completely different play style out of each type of faction as they see fit to their desires or situation.


My personal desires for fall of france's future:

--A autoupdater that will help with distribution and patching, I do not believe in a long patch cycle, I like fast constant updating and I think most people would appreciate this in a smaller file size if available such as an updater.
--A website that tracked games played, and the real potential of a "last stand" campaign due to faction choices.
--A website that showed what each unit type is and what to expect from it, a wiki of sorts, even though I hate wiki's.
--Moar models... Moar factions.  There is no reason not to model any force we can have a set of models for under these ideals.

does that explain my reasonings clearly ?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 06:42:07 pm by salan » Logged
LeoPhone Offline
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« Reply #212 on: July 29, 2010, 06:48:39 pm »

yup, thats all clear  Cheesy
it all sounds really cool. only thing i worry about is the healing HQs thing. at the moment you can already blob a bunch of (different type of) infantry, attack and when it goes wrong retreat right away. if your HQ also heals it only increases the demand of retreating since you will be wanting to retreat before you lose any men(you cant reinforce).

personally i think its better to have retreat cost something, like recourses or health on your squad. the best way of doing it (if its possible) is losing XP for your new unit unlocks i think.
instead of HQ healing, allow engineers to build a healing station anywhere in friendly territory. how those healing stations are build can be done in a lot of different ways:
- make it cost recourses
- limit build to one. if its destroyed, too bad for you.
- set the building time quite high and limit the amounts of them on the field at once to 1.

good luck and if u do want any help just tell me  Smiley
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salan Offline
Synergies TL2 mod!
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Posts: 6290


« Reply #213 on: July 29, 2010, 09:19:35 pm »

actually i do want to talk to you Wink
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NightRain Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908



« Reply #214 on: July 30, 2010, 03:04:08 am »

Needs Finland in it tbh =D
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salan Offline
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« Reply #215 on: July 30, 2010, 09:56:15 am »

Needs Finland in it tbh =D

Actually we (speedy I believe) is working on donig a finland troop list and i'm keeping myeye out for skins.

And Leophone.  I think you are right, Retreat does need to have an inherent cost involved.  Or it needs to be changed.  Its to much a get out of jail free card.  I think what needs to happen, rather then drain resources, is have it pause the squad for 2 seconds or so, and have absolutely no bonus modifiers on it.

so you run into a mg, and hit retreat. your stuck for a few seconds giving the order, and with no bonus modifiers.  I believe it is rather easy to fix as its just an ability in the abilities rgds.

but current retreat is just too spam-able with the healing houses.  FOF is meant to be a fast paced game, and ultimately I think you are right, it will slow it down under that circumstance.
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NightRain Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 3908



« Reply #216 on: July 30, 2010, 10:26:34 am »

Remove Retreat. Make it like Russians. You get stuck, you're fuck'd that's how it goes.

Besides Sally, Speedy's me Grin

Yes I was thinkin' of making Finnish Army into FoF. Too bad there's no Russians to fight against but I think american infantry spam does replace Russian hordes just fine.
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sheffer Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 593



« Reply #217 on: July 30, 2010, 10:31:44 am »

Remove Retreat.
+1 and save healing aura for HQ
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Masacree Offline
EIR Veteran
Posts: 904


« Reply #218 on: July 30, 2010, 10:38:52 am »

Actually we (speedy I believe) is working on donig a finland troop list and i'm keeping myeye out for skins.

And Leophone.  I think you are right, Retreat does need to have an inherent cost involved.  Or it needs to be changed.

Retreat does have a cost - time (to get back to the battlefield) and loss of position, are the two that come to mind easiest.
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LeoPhone Offline
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Posts: 0


« Reply #219 on: July 30, 2010, 01:02:33 pm »

Retreat does have a cost - time (to get back to the battlefield) and loss of position, are the two that come to mind easiest.
only once in all my coh games retreat was actually bad for me. i was blobbing my inf on vire river valley(vcoh) and every time i was about to kill something the enemy used force retreat untill he could unlock the KT. and that game SUCKED.

Remove Retreat. Make it like Russians. You get stuck, you're fuck'd that's how it goes.

Besides Sally, Speedy's me Grin

Yes I was thinkin' of making Finnish Army into FoF. Too bad there's no Russians to fight against but I think american infantry spam does replace Russian hordes just fine.

reteating could be removed. but then there must be some kind of replacement like in EFmod the russians got a officer with an global fireup ability. giving every army at start an officer that can do that could work. he could receive either this fireup ability or the "retreat to captain" ability the british in vcoh have.
but if you lose this guy it should take some time to get him back, so people will be careful with him. also no infantry aura buff thing that will just enforce blobbing. maybe an artillery barrage or something.
but thats a whole different plan, even though i did see you can buy artillery spotters at HQ so officers could replace that.
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