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[Mysthalin]

I'm not even sure if I want to calculate the time it would take for 4 HMGs to kill a fired-up AB squad.

I get pissed off calculating 0.x decimals, since they seem to small to bother with .

[Firesparks]

it still does, but atm you can also run right into 4 hmgs after canceling the supression.

That's just Airborne being ridiculous. Ranger would still get tore to shred.

[Mysthalin]

Rangers have 0.75 damage from the MG42, and 0.75 acc at every single second of their existence.

Airborne have the same 0.75 damage, and 0.75 acc only while they're moving.

Yes, the Airborne are ever so "ridiculous".

[Firesparks]

Rangers have 0.75 damage from the MG42, and 0.75 acc at every single second of their existence.

Airborne have the same 0.75 damage, and 0.75 acc only while they're moving.

Yes, the Airborne are ever so "ridiculous".

you forgot easy company.
And Airborne doesn't need to get close. The greatest advantage of the Recoilless Rifle and bar is that they work great at Long Range.
Airborne can remain effective while keeping the distance, where the mg42 doesn't nearly do as much damage.

Ranger get tore to shred partially because the ranger have to get close. When I use fireup, I usually run the ranger out of the arc of fire and then charge in while the wehr is refacing the mg42. I would get killed if I just charge straight into the mg42's fire.

[Mysthalin]

The BAR, thompson and RR are all absolutely irrelevant in the time it takes for 4 HMGs to destroy the squad once it's fired-up to get away, which was the situation given.

Easy Company is also completely irrelevant. Not all airborne companies even have the T4 to begin with.

[Firesparks]

The BAR, thompson and RR are all absolutely irrelevant in the time it takes for 4 HMGs to destroy the squad once it's fired-up to get away, which was the situation given.

Easy Company is also completely irrelevant. Not all airborne companies even have the T4 to begin with.

Just how relevant is 4 mg42 to begin with? It's an off-hand example made by 4 leo phone that's gotten out of hand. You're dodging the important fact of how different Rangers and Airborne operate. The mg42's main purpose was to different the close range Rifle from owning the long range volks.
Ranger still get tore to shred if they try to get close. Even the Airborne would get tore to shred if they try to get close, but the Airborne doesn't need to get close.

I would say 25% extra hp is pretty relevant when we are considering how much bullets an airborne squad can take. Sure not all AB company have easy company, but it's pretty powerful if they do.

[Mysthalin]

You're the one dodging now. Leophone stated that example, you picked up on it, I responded to it. Stick to it. So you're saying airborne tackle HMG42s by fighting them at long range? Isn't that interesting considering their grenades are short-range weapons, and the HMG42 handily outDPSes the BAR in a long-range firefight.

Then it may be an issue with easy company, not airborne. Make your case in another thread, if you feel that way. Don't bring in doctrine abilities and other off-setting factors into a base unit discussion, as we can all go "What if the HMG has heavy support, what if the rangers have allied grit?" and so forth. It's irrelevant.

This discussion is going on the grounds that Leophone claimed you could run into 4 HMG42s with an airborne squad after hitting fire-up. You responded to this claim by saying rangers wouldn't survive it, whereas the retarded AB would. I called you out on that, and now you're deflecting. Either stick to your claim and keep protecting it, or just admit you were wrong and stop. Don't go on silly wild tangents.

[LeoPhone]

maybe one squad dies to the 4 mg42s. but that squad is not alone and those others will get past the hmgs. without getting supressed.
but the problem is not AB charging in, because if they do they cannot fire back so if you have any AI vehicles or close combat inf you can counter it.
the problem is that if you set an ambush for the enemy AB they will get away and return fully healed because of AB operating at long range and being able to fireup retreat.
you can win 4 out of 5 engagements while the AB will still be victorious.
and if you try to chase the airborne after they lost their engagement they will be ready for you and shooting from max range right away. their teammates will also be supporting and your arty will not be able to help because it just shot at the AB before they retreated. support weapons are also not quite a good option to chase infantry

You're the one dodging now. Leophone stated that example, you picked up on it, I responded to it. Stick to it. So you're saying airborne tackle HMG42s by fighting them at long range? Isn't that interesting considering their grenades are short-range weapons, and the HMG42 handily outDPSes the BAR in a long-range firefight.

Then it may be an issue with easy company, not airborne. Make your case in another thread, if you feel that way. Don't bring in doctrine abilities and other off-setting factors into a base unit discussion, as we can all go "What if the HMG has heavy support, what if the rangers have allied grit?" and so forth. It's irrelevant.

This discussion is going on the grounds that Leophone claimed you could run into 4 HMG42s with an airborne squad after hitting fire-up. You responded to this claim by saying rangers wouldn't survive it, whereas the retarded AB would. I called you out on that, and now you're deflecting. Either stick to your claim and keep protecting it, or just admit you were wrong and stop. Don't go on silly wild tangents.

what i ment with 4 hmgs is that the AB cant be supressed while in fireup. and if an AB blob comes to fight hmgs the hmg will only have a chanse of winning when he starts firing from max range. but in that case the AB simply use fireup.

[smurfORnot]

best counter to ab as  I found is Tiger...most other things just fail some more,some less...

[Smokaz]

i cant believe they raped phase armor

single most unneeded change ever

pumas/acs should have remained counters to ab

[Killer344]

i cant believe they raped phase armor

single most unneeded change ever

pumas/acs should have remained counters to ab

?

[Firesparks]

You're the one dodging now. Leophone stated that example, you picked up on it, I responded to it. Stick to it. So you're saying airborne tackle HMG42s by fighting them at long range? Isn't that interesting considering their grenades are short-range weapons, and the HMG42 handily outDPSes the BAR in a long-range firefight.

Then it may be an issue with easy company, not airborne. Make your case in another thread, if you feel that way. Don't bring in doctrine abilities and other off-setting factors into a base unit discussion, as we can all go "What if the HMG has heavy support, what if the rangers have allied grit?" and so forth. It's irrelevant.

This discussion is going on the grounds that Leophone claimed you could run into 4 HMG42s with an airborne squad after hitting fire-up. You responded to this claim by saying rangers wouldn't survive it, whereas the retarded AB would. I called you out on that, and now you're deflecting. Either stick to your claim and keep protecting it, or just admit you were wrong and stop. Don't go on silly wild tangents.

The scenario of charging AB into mg42 is a nonsensical anyway (much less four mg42). AB probably wouldn't survive a pure case of just charging into the mg42 (ignoring the affect of easy company).

However, the AB would have an easier time against mg42. The mg42's killing power are much weaker at long range, where the airborne would still be able to kill vehicle.
if it's a mass of ranger or AB, then the Mg42's probably fucked. The fireup allow the AB to ignore suppression and the mg42's killing power is not enough. The saving grace against ranger is that they still need to get close for Thompson or bazooka to be effective, and they are weak against flame weapon. Paratrooper are not as hamstring by range and can find more room to work around.  

[brn4meplz]

i cant believe they raped phase armor

single most unneeded change ever

pumas/acs should have remained counters to ab

nothing changed

[Mysthalin]

Firesparks, yet again - so you take on the MG42 with carbines, garands and BARs at long range? How is that in any way good tactics, considering the short duration of fire-up and extremely poor DPS of all those weapons at long range? If you want to take out the MG42 with airborne - you'll have to charge just the same way as you would with rangers.

[BigDick]

i cant believe they raped phase armor

single most unneeded change ever

pumas/acs should have remained counters to ab

pumas were only good counters against AB in your mind
but actually they are only a soft counter that will struggle 1v1 against RR squads if they use cover

[smurfORnot]

if they use cover,they will eat puma...

[Mysthalin]

RR range - 35
Puma range - 40.

Why you're fighting at a range at which the RR can shoot back at you, when the RR squad isn't even moving is beyond me.

[Kruno]

You know that puma moves rather stupid than anything. Even with best micro ever.
 So usually it kinda get's to close by not owners will.
At least it happens to me.

[Groundfire]

You know that puma moves rather stupid than anything. Even with best micro ever.
 So usually it kinda get's to close by not owners will.
At least it happens to me.

How would you know that unless you had the best micro ever?

2 pumas with doctrinal upgrades, or 3 pumas will make AB cry.

It becomes suicidal for AB to stay and fight at that point they will get picked to pieces. Pumas are a more then efficient counter to AB.

Heres a feather for your cap too, because of the Puma Phase armor, AB hiding in smoke are utterly useless. probably the single most effective way to use AB evar, is completely negated by a couple of 280 mp, 65 fuel no hit box armored cars.

Same thing goes for PE AC. There is no reason why any axis company should not come to the field with 2-3 of these weapons period.

[Smokaz]

if they use cover they are not dangerous, cause you cant blob in cover