EiR:R Development and Progress

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[TheIcelandicManiac]

We have a similar issue. It's just something developers and the community have to deal with- maturely. I hope for the best for you guys.

Did you not hear?

most of the grown ups left so now we only have 12 year olds making treads now.

[Killer344]

lose interest =/= leaving

[Spartan_Marine88]

This comment just goes to show that you don't even comprehend whats going on.
Let me rephrase this for you, but bluntly.

Demon, Spartan,  are perfect examples of ungrateful, childish, immature spoiled little brats who have no appreciation for people who bust their asses for free only to have people like you shit all over them.
You three people are perfect examples of why this MoD is failing. Your constant bullshit is the only reason the Dev team are sick tired of the bullshit.

When this mod fails, take a look at yourself. You are to blame, plain and simple. Unfortunately you are to stupid to realize your own mistakes. You will spend all of your time blaming everybody but yourselves because you are too weak to admit your mistakes.

Killer, Elitegren, please for the sake of the mod, just ban these guys. They do nothing but breed negativity in these forums and in games. They have said absolutely nothing positive about this mod, so you will be doing them a favor by eliminating them. They will not be forced to play a game they hate so much. If you care about the future of this mod, please take a stand now before it's too late.

Edit: Removed a name I had  in there by accident.

I have never been negative about this mod, i have never blamed a dev for failing to do what he was supposed to, im tired of certain people in this community placing blame, if i didn't like this mod i wouldn't play at least 2 games every day, wouldn't be talking to people on vent.

Actualy, i have a bigger issue with certain people like you who are really harming this mod acting like a Moderator, while not bothering to be a part of this community on vent or on the forums other then to throw your weight around, or playing games every now and then.

I have only ever stated that i don't think that the Grindless idea was good (and stated my reasons for this belief), then stated that i would shut up till i see how it pans out. And that i didn't think balancing should be done till after all the doctrines are out, so you can see their effects across the board.

Other then that i have only ever been positive about this mod, and offered my assistence if needed and wanted for certain things within my limited skill sets as i do not have money to donate. If this makes me childish and immature, then ill be glad to let you ban me.

[Demon767]

What have i done for the community?

Ive made player banners, Ive helped in PR, Ive created a more diverse selection of skinpack, I made 1 Map and countless times ive helped new people get the hang of the mod, increasing our playerbase since those i trained stayed relatively long. Ive put hours upon hours of work to contribute to the overall success this mod once had. And you come here and start blaming me and spartan, saying we are Perfect examples . Dude you have no idea what you're talking about.

My constant bullshit? Ive never once insulted a dev and infact, go check recent change logs, possibly going back 10 change logs. i assure you i say "Awesome patch" or something along those lines, even with constructive criticism or a "Ill try it and see how it goes" attitude.

So if your resulting in insulting me, becuase you got nothing else better to do but troll your own thread. Go right ahead, but your the only one loosing face in this thread.

One last thing, dont forget i had the maturity to apolagize to you through PM about my behaviour towards you, atleast you can have the balls to do the same.

[3rdCondor]

We should really stop guys. I share a lot of opinions with many of the people posting in this thread, but we can't keep yelling back and forth at each other. What will this thread accomplish? If there are problems, let's try to fix them without yelling.... please.

[tank130]

You got your priorities wrong Tank. We are players , we don't contribute to the mod,  we PLAY IT.

We can donate if we want or do some other small tasks (like the tutorial translation which was done by some people from community [if they are needed and/or approved by modders) , but most uf are only players and have no saying in the mod whatsoever and blaming community for the lack of motivation for updates and saying it is Spartans or Demons fault is plain silly.


If all community members would have 100% control over doctrines, balancing rgd matters etc, then you could blame community as a whole that specific trolls contributed that some people don't want to mod it anymore.
but it is not case, no one of us have anything to say at the end what will be in the mod.

If anyone is unhappy with the state of the mod, it is the makers, because in the end we play what you/they provide us with.

You have misinterpreted my reply.

I was trying to state that his sarcastic pointless post was not contributing to the success of the mod in any way. In fact, these pointless posts just reaffirm the Dev teams frustration dealing with all the pointless bullshit mixed in with good points.
Take a look at almost every post about balance or bugs. It eventually ends with some pointless post, or is riddled through out the post. Then those same members bitch that the dev team doesn't respond.

[tank130]

I have never been negative about this mod, i have never blamed a dev for failing to do what he was supposed to, im tired of certain people in this community placing blame, if i didn't like this mod i wouldn't play at least 2 games every day, wouldn't be talking to people on vent.

Actualy, i have a bigger issue with certain people like you who are really harming this mod acting like a Moderator, while not bothering to be a part of this community on vent or on the forums other then to throw your weight around, or playing games every now and then.

I have only ever stated that i don't think that the Grindless idea was good (and stated my reasons for this belief), then stated that i would shut up till i see how it pans out. And that i didn't think balancing should be done till after all the doctrines are out, so you can see their effects across the board.

Other then that i have only ever been positive about this mod, and offered my assistence if needed and wanted for certain things within my limited skill sets as i do not have money to donate. If this makes me childish and immature, then ill be glad to let you ban me.

I start a topic that basically says," hey everybody, let's stop bashing the dev team and show some support. They have lost all motivation from the constant insults and don't feel like working on the mod anymore" Let's save this mod.

You come on here and argue with me for 10 pages. Criticizing me for pointing out the truth and wanting to save the mod.

Why?

[tank130]

Due to constant insults and criticisms directed at the development team, they have essential lost interest on further development of the mod.

Do you blame them? Countless hours of work put into a mod that is completely free of charge for you to play, is rewarded by endless threads of bitching, whining, criticizing, and general insults.

There are a large number of people on these forums who act like they deserve to have a say in what happens in this mod. You act like the employees and the CEO have joint control over the corporation. Seriously, who the fuck do you think you people are? If you don't like the mod, then fuck off..... If you have a new idea you feel could be a benefit, then by all means, pass it along. But stop insulting the hell out of the people trying to do their best.

Here's what I think needs to happen to try and save this mod. Besides the obvious need for some thank yous and compliments, it's time to weed out the bullshit. I am talking about the members who continue to insult, troll, grief, and generally just piss off the rest of the community.

For example. If someone posts an insulting or criticizing comment; the mods need to delete it immediately and send a warning. I really don't give a shit if you feel it goes against your freedom of speech. Your freedom of speech is destroying this mod. We all know who the worst offenders are, but because they have been here so long, there is belief they should be aloud to say anything they want. Well, I couldn't disagree more. There is a saying: "familiarity breeds contempt". That is what is happening in these forums and it needs to stop.

Some people will come on here and say things like, " the dev's need to be able to handle constructive criticism". I say bullshit!! Until you have to layout some money for this mod, STFU and be thankful for what you have. Again, it doesn't mean you can't bring ideas to the table, but you have no right to criticize what's there.

It just make me sick how many people come on here and bitch, and bitch, and bitch, all the while contributing absolutely nothing. You act like little spoiled brats.

I respectfully request the mods to start bringing the hammer down. For the sake of saving this mod, start being moderating assholes. Will we loose some people? damn right we will, and those will be the people we need to get rid of. Will people be pissed off? Damn right they will; but fuck em!! If they don't like it, they can go find some other free mod to bitch about.

If the mods don't have time or are uncomfortable being more strict, then I will gladly volunteer my time.

This mod belongs to EiRMod and should be developed and run as he wants, not you. If he does it wrong and fails, that's his problem. He sure as the fuck doesn't need you insulting him and his team.

Tank

Just a reminder of what this whole post was about. Members of the moderation team, and the development team, both past and present, have publicly posted here agreeing with the content. My chose of language is a little strong and I regret that. But the facts remain the same.

Every time one of you posts here with out a word of support to the devs, you are confirming what they feel. Most of the community doesn't give a shit. The dev team have created an incredible mod, but a number of inconsiderate members have made them feel like it just isn't worth it anymore

[chefarzt]

The truth is that until EIRRMod comes back we can't release any kind of patch/content.

Plain and simple. Without him u can argue the shit outta ur ass and still achieve nothing.
But that also implies that a lil "Hey Guys Im still here" would be nice.

And btw criticism doesnt equal insulting. Seriously tank get ur shit straight.
This bullshit is making me sick. Stop bashing each other ffs.

[Spartan_Marine88]

I start a topic that basically says," hey everybody, let's stop bashing the dev team and show some support. They have lost all motivation from the constant insults and don't feel like working on the mod anymore" Let's save this mod.

You come on here and argue with me for 10 pages. Criticizing me for pointing out the truth and wanting to save the mod.

Why?

No, your only point from your original post was how we disrespect the devs and mods, which isn't all that true, that you knew the right way to do things. And the Ban Hammer should start being swung around, saving the mod by destroying whats left of the community.

You don't want to save the mod, you didn't point out a big truth.

The TRUTH:

People got pissed off from the constant Wipes.

Then people got pissed off from the content never being fully finished and balanced before another wipe. (balancing a doctrine when only 3 doctrines are in the game just can't work)

People were not happy with grinding from lvl 0 all the way back to 9 for the 1 millionth time.

Grindless system is proposed, even though its not the solution to the issue, just ignoring that we just wanted the wipes to stop.

lvl 5 is set as the base start to lessen grind for now (people get happy), spam companies start. (happyness stops)

balancing is being done to address spam companies that won't even be an issue due to the complete overhaul of the system thats coming up.

(factional system talked about, people get happy again (much better sounding then grindless))

People start pointing out that the current 'balances' are going to leave the game un balanced when war map comes out.


Tank figures out that the solution is to ban anyone that speaks up...


How to save the mod.

Stop balancing and finish the doctrines, once there in then balance them but don't worry to much as the warmap will change everything, and balancing will need to be done all over again (its not a bad thing, just inevitable with a change to the system)  EXAMPLE: The removel of the PP system will completely make the nerf to Volks spam and Faust Nerf completly redundandt

[Malgoroth]

I think the general idea of the OP was that the vitriolic tone coming from some people was unnecessary and is demoralizing for the dev team. An idea that I agree with. He's not saying don't criticize. He's saying people shouldn't be jackasses while doing so.

For instance... there's a difference in "I'm not enjoying this aspect of the mod, perhaps it could be changed by such and such" and "omg wtf is this shit? What the fuck were the devs thinking when doing this? Fuck this".

[Spartan_Marine88]

I think the general idea of the OP was that the vitriolic tone coming from some people was unnecessary and is demoralizing for the dev team. An idea that I agree with. He's not saying don't criticize. He's saying people shouldn't be jackasses while doing so.

For instance... there's a difference in "I'm not enjoying this aspect of the mod, perhaps it could be changed by such and such" and "omg wtf is this shit? What the fuck were the devs thinking when doing this? Fuck this".

I agree

I apologize for any input i had in making this worse unintenally so im going to just drop it here. I love this mod, and as always just hope for the best

[Grundwaffe]

One thing i've never understood is why there are so many doctrine cycles. In every cycle, there are units that are OP and UP, instead of ditching everything and starting from scratch again, why weren't doctrines just kept and balanced? This is the reason why spinn72 stopped playing and i'm sure it's the reason why many more have. It's also less work for the devs and could get EIRR out of a beta into a final release, allowing you guys to concentrate your whole resources on a warmap or other cool features.

- Enkk

Agreed, some of it was really good and improving.. Or else i always saw that kind of thing to be a something for the end development. Warmap that is, but people wanted it

[tank130]

I think the general idea of the OP was that the vitriolic tone coming from some people was unnecessary and is demoralizing for the dev team. An idea that I agree with. He's not saying don't criticize. He's saying people shouldn't be jackasses while doing so.

For instance... there's a difference in "I'm not enjoying this aspect of the mod, perhaps it could be changed by such and such" and "omg wtf is this shit? What the fuck were the devs thinking when doing this? Fuck this".

Thanks Malgoroth, I appreciate your input. I think the majority of the community got this with the first post, but some may have been confused.

There seems to be a big misconception in regards to the "BAN HAMMER" as some have come to call it. I will do my best to explain it again, but some members will still have troubles getting it I am afraid.

Some members on this forum will act like jackasses not matter what. For example: I will quote again what Malgoroth has stated."He's not saying don't criticize. He's saying people shouldn't be jackasses while doing so."

One would think that everybody in the community will get this. It makes sense, it is simply written. This should be an easy rule to follow and most people will do so willingly. Unfortunately there are members of this community that really don't give a shit and will say things like, "omg wtf is this shit? What the fuck were the devs thinking when doing this? Fuck this".

The people who make comments like this are doing nothing to help the community or the dev team. The dev team will ignore these remarks in regards to the intended content, but being human , they will eventually get tired of hearing it and loose their motivation to work on the mod.

I have suggested these posts need to be removed swiftly to stop the witch hunts that tend to occur shortly after these types of posts.

I have reread my original post twice. No where in that post did I say Ban Hammer or Ban people. I said delete those types of posts:"omg wtf is this shit? What the fuck were the devs thinking when doing this? Fuck this". and send them a warning. I did not say ban them.

The only reference I made to any kind of hammer was:"I respectfully request the mods to start bringing the hammer down" This was never intended as "ban hammer" it is a common expression used to mean get more strict.

So now that we all get it. Let's start cleaning up the threads and showing the Dev team we really do care. Let's stop telling the dev team how to run their business. If we find a bug or OP/UP unit. Let's let them know with out all the rage.

[tank130]

One thing i've never understood is why there are so many doctrine cycles. In every cycle, there are units that are OP and UP, instead of ditching everything and starting from scratch again, why weren't doctrines just kept and balanced? This is the reason why spinn72 stopped playing and i'm sure it's the reason why many more have. It's also less work for the devs and could get EIRR out of a beta into a final release, allowing you guys to concentrate your whole resources on a warmap or other cool features.

- Enkk

Agreed, some of it was really good and improving.. Or else i always saw that kind of thing to be a something for the end development. Warmap that is, but people wanted it

The answer to this is very simple. We keep loosing coders because they get sick of all the bullshit in the forums. Each new coder that comes into play wants to change things to his way of thinking. The rest of the Dev team has to agree with him or he just won't code.

So if the community wants more say and control, I would suggest not bashing the shit out of the dev team every time they make a mistake or try something new. Start respecting the coders and eventually they will be more open to input.
Everybody has pride in what they do. If you bash that pride, they are not going to listen, even if you may be right.

Do you want to see more productivity? Stop bashing the dev team until they leave. Every time a dev team member leaves (especially coders) you can expect a rework of the doctrines.

Come on guys, this is simple. Start showing some respect and courtesy to the Dev team and you will see a lot more development.

[nugnugx]

Every time a dev team member leaves (especially coders) you can expect a rework of the doctrines.

And why is that ? There should be a general consensus on things like doctrines that they are NOT changeable by anyone as he fits.
Only the lead man should be able to make decisions like this.

[Groundfire]

One thing i've never understood is why there are so many doctrine cycles. In every cycle, there are units that are OP and UP, instead of ditching everything and starting from scratch again, why weren't doctrines just kept and balanced? This is the reason why spinn72 stopped playing and i'm sure it's the reason why many more have. It's also less work for the devs and could get EIRR out of a beta into a final release, allowing you guys to concentrate your whole resources on a warmap or other cool features.

- Enkk

Agreed, some of it was really good and improving.. Or else i always saw that kind of thing to be a something for the end development. Warmap that is, but people wanted it

Go back to page 6 or 7, I answered this exact thing.

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=18323.msg319153#msg319153

To elaborate more on that post, each coder has had their idea of a doctrinal design and balance should be like. It may look normal or even conform to what you (as a player) standards should be for the doctrines, but the devs look at the whole picture and reformat out of necessity with specific goals in mind.

Agian, there is no "focusing energies" and also the warmap would never "debalance the game" (I remember reading that somewhere earlier)

Also, wipes are done out of necessity due to mostly server issues and launcher upgrades. (unavoidable)

Tank is 100% right in his intentions(although we are not going to ban people for opinions). A unification of the community and full 100% support behind the devs is what is now needed to progress any further. It is what is required.
He has personally saved this mod before, undisputidly, he is very very far from being "the bad guy."

I would also like to point out that quite a few of the people who I have deemed in my mind as a problem to development, have a token presence in this thread or have avoided it entirely, or maybe hide in the relative seclusion of vent. If you have not noticed these people, then you havent been paying attention.

It's sometimes not even big things, but every negative wave flows directly to the people at the top and it collects there like a cest pool.

Toxic rhetoric directed at anyone internally or the products of what is produced effects everyone internally, because everyone on the inside (tries) to work as a team. Even if you do not openly (negatively) ciriticize a person directly, by just saying "This patch is fucking shit" effects everyone because everyone has had a hand in working on it, everyone participated in the discussion and a vote was made.

This is what I dont think some people understand.

Patches and progress get delayed because coders get burned out. The only thing that is capable of burning them out is disinterest in the work. (or catastrophic computer failure) That most certainly stems from community dissatisfaction. Community dissastisfaction comes from a few very loud people that are unwilling to change or adapt. One change might trigger someone, one change might trigger another, but in the fourm they all write out "THIS PATCH IS SHIT" because of thier own little beef with the patch.

The community will never be satisfied because we have to please everyone, chain reaction, chain reaction, coder burn out.

Perhaps we should just remove the fourms if people cant keep their negative opinions to themselves.

[Spartan_Marine88]

"THIS PATCH IS SHIT" because of thier own little beef with the patch.

Only time i ever heard that, even EIRRMod was offended with the patch

Granted it was only one small part of it

[Groundfire]

Only time i ever heard that, even EIRRMod was offended with the patch

It's a generalized statement for the sake of brevity, but I have deffinately heard it. You know what I mean.

[tank130]

Only time i ever heard that, even EIRRMod was offended with the patch

Granted it was only one small part of it

BINGO!!!!! This is exactly the type of thing I am talking about. EiRRMod may have thought the patch had an issue, but he would never post the patch is shit.

As you have pointed out, there was a small issue with one part of a patch, but some dumbass post, "This patch is shit"

Do I think this person should be banned? Of course not, that is freaken ridiculous. Do I think his post should be deleted. Absolutely!! it is pointless and will only insult the people that worked on the patch.
Should that person post that he has an issue with a particular piece of the patch? Absolutely!!!! Just don't be a jack ass about it.