Proposed: FlaK default facing ability

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[VERTIGGO]

This is the opposite of a rage.

I propose that the FlaK 88 gets a facing button kind of like the 17lber, though it's automatic movement would stay the same. It would simply rotate to wherever you face it and that would be its new default resting position (the base needn't change, unless the game engine has issues with this).

Case in point, and we've all seen it happen, my pershing and M10s just killed one by waiting until it was done firing and was back to default position, and then attacked it from the rear. Since it was dead in two volleys, it only got off 1 single shot in that time, since the 180 degree rotation takes forever.

Currently an alert player must use attack ground to keep the facing, but that bastardizes the reload cycle and he must be very quick to manually target or it's pointless. It would certainly make it easier to use FlaKs, but they're tough to defend as it is, and I believe this change is fair.

[Hicks58]

Tbf, the 88 has been this way a long time, and I'm of the opinion that it shows an element of skill that your taking the time to get around the back of the thing instead of head-butting it in the face.

Flanking has always been an important element, even more so with high profile units such as the 88.

It would be a nice addition, but personally, I'd prefer not to fix what isn't currently broken. Put too many ease of use functions in and we could accidentally have gameplay dumbed down.

[Malgoroth]

I'm inclined to agree with hicks. The 17 can face a certain direction, but can't rotate. The 88 can rotate, so it shouldn't be able to just change facing like that.

If tanks are coming from the opposite direction the 88 was built to face, click attack ground and have it shoot the ground in the direction the tanks are attacking from. When they come into view, either click stop, or just tell it to attack the tank.

That's what I did was my 88's back in the day. As a matter of fact... I think there was a replay posted recently showcasing some fantastic 88 use on Abbeville. I believe hicks was present in that battle.

[VERTIGGO]

Thanks for not reading my post and saying the exact same thing

[Hicks58]

...That was me using the 88 Mal.

Infact, that was the first time I've *Ever* used an 88 as the Axis in EiRR, and I werent even Defensive lawl.

[Tymathee]

Like Mal said, 17's get facing because they dont rotate on their own, 88's do. I propose that if you want the 88 to be able to be faced, that 17's can rotate on their own

[VERTIGGO]

I know what you guys are saying, but it's really a different animal.

The 17lber is like a normal ATG, and snaps to its target very fast within its field of fire. The Flak, however, operates like an immobile tank, and the turret slowly turns all the way round. The difference is a tank normally can rotate, so you present your defensible front. Even artillery can be faced, as they stay wherever they are aimed.

I know it's a matter of how much micro we choose to require of a defensive player, but there really is no precedent for this handicap. It's the only unit I know of (besides the bofors I guess) that has no way of aiming it's gun without shooting and risking attack during reload.

[puddin]

In his defence... The 17 can also be moved around the battle field... Same not said for the 88... Also when move it regains its health...

The 88 is not perfect, Picking a direction would be fine as long as rotational speed was not effected. 

Perhaps make it able to pick a direction, but it dows not auto rotate... It has a field of rire similar to a 17 lber, So you can still flank around it....

[VERTIGGO]

I don't think that's quite necessary even, the 17 is a pick up and turn type weapon, where the flak is a turret. It is pretty slow to acquire targets, and I don't think there's any reason to obstruct its movement beyond that...

I have very different things to say about a weapon that can just continuously pack up and instantly become a new unit, but I've heard so much whining about how "it's part of the engine we can't change" I don't bother continuing that debate.

[RikiRude]

So people are saying since it takes extra micro and more skill to make it face the right way that it shouldn't be changed. Total malarky imo. That's quite selfish. There's no reason (as long as coding it isn't hard) they shouldn't put this in. As said the 17 pounder can do it so it should be possible. That's like the same people who say if it was possible to put a reverse button in we shouldn't because it take away from micro. It's silly that you should attack ground.

[VERTIGGO]

+1
That's really the best reason. I'm inclined to agree that if it's fair (i.e. anyone can do it), better player control over micro is almost always an improvement. I would love to shift+click my tanks to make them reverse... I wonder if it is indeed impossible.

[DarkSoldierX]

Personaly I think this SHOULDNT be added in

I am a huge axis fan but you should be able to have a chance to flank it.

To keep it aimed just gotta use micro.

The 17 cant turn like a turret, if it didnt have face direction it would be useless.

Although it is cheep 17 can move and regain HP.

Emplacement spam should be nerfed.

[8thRifleRegiment]

already being fixed next patch, 17 pdr is gunna be removed and added as doctrine purchase for RE but it will only be a moveable 17 pdr with a crew like the 6 pounder.

[Demon767]

what? you guys confusing to stop this from being added in. loses the added micro? well if your flanking and and he turns the 88, then charge the rest of your forces straight ahead.

you guys are ludicrous

[Tymathee]

no more 17 emplacement, so no need to mirror it, keep the 88 the same as it has been in vcoh for god knows how long

/threadlock

[NightRain]

already being fixed next patch, 17 pdr is gunna be removed and added as doctrine purchase for RE but it will only be a moveable 17 pdr with a crew like the 6 pounder.

It is not a nerf, it is a buff. major buff. Emplacement of course can be buildable and unit moveable inside and outside of it I can't wait to spam 17Pdrs!

[BigDick]

i think it was sarcasm by him because he is of the opinion that allies get most time buffs in patches

[VERTIGGO]

no more 17 emplacement, so no need to mirror it, keep the 88 the same as it has been in vcoh for god knows how long

/threadlock

No offense man, but it's not "mirroring the 17". The FlaK 36's own movement behavior wouldn't change one bit, the proposal would just plug a hole in the unit control system just like if, say, the Sherman behaved like a bike for some reason, and we had to patch it to make it able to reverse like all the tanks, etc. It sounds ridiculous, but that's why I think the FlaK is just missing a control feature here. There's no such thing as a "default" direction for a weapon that can rotate 360 degrees with a mere hand crank...

By the way, with the 17 pounder, I see no reason why they shouldn't behave like the PaK 40... I mean we completely added a major unit that had no Relic precedent, and it's definitely a buff. To be fair I don't see any reason why the 17 can't be changed to function in the same way, as long as it's something the Brits support.

[LeoPhone]

topic about this:

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?225037-Weapon-Rotation-Reset&highlight=flak+facing

seems it is not possible. I have my own idea though. when a flak gets decrewed while its facing another direction, wont that direction be the default direction once it is remanned? It should be possible to make an ability that decrews and then instantly recrews the weapon then, setting a new default direction.  This might remove veterancy from the unit though...

[VERTIGGO]

Maybe the option would require the base to turn as well...