[US] M18 Hellcat

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[NightRain]

so the tank is only good if you purchase the hawkins mine upgrade? 

IT still can;t take on a P4 reliably.

thus it only costs 165 fuel.

[Hicks58]

Numbah crunch time (All to two decimal places).

Hellcat penetration rates without HVAP:

Panther: L - 16% M - 22% S - 26%
Tiger: L - 22% M - 30.25% S - 35.75%
Jagd: L - 16.99% M - 23.36% S -27.61%
PIV: L - 43.6% M - 59.95% S - 70.85%
Stug: L - 24% M - 33% S - 39%
Hetzer: L - 40% M - 55% S - 65%

Now for the Hellcat penetration rates with HVAP:

Panther: L - 21.28% M - 29.26% S - 34.58%
Tiger: L - 29.26% M - 40.23% S - 47.55%
Jagd: L - 22.59% M - 31.07% S - 36.72%
PIV: L - 57.99% M - 79.73% S - 94.23%
Stug: L - 31.92% M - 43.89% S - 51.87%
Hetzer: L - 53.2% M - 73.15% S - 86.45%

And there you have it people. Going by these numbers, without use of ambush, your hellcat is still going to suck against anything but PIV's and Hetzers with HVAP. However, a pair of Hellcats with HVAP chasing down a Tiger just *Might* do something if they can close to short range.

If somebody points out where the Hellcat ambush bonuses are in the RGD's, I'll also throw up a table of penetration for ambushing as well.

Oh, and I've also heard that apparently, the HVAP might not even be linked properly for Hellcats, and may not be working. Considering how few people use Hellcats, and how (Relatively) insignificant the increase is against most targets is without ambush, I can see how such a thing could have been overlooked lol.

[puddin]

Ok the problem is stugs then... An 8 pop cap tank with no turret and you can;t penetrate it at short range... 

I look at the name, Tank hunter and i just feel no one fears it ever. 

I almost feel as tho it should be able to buy some kind of AP round upgrade so it would have the aboility to penetrate, but cost additional similar to the 57 so that it would make more sense as a tank hunter.

The price can stay the same... TRhe wonky terrible pathing can stay, but at least it can be used as an tank hunter.

[LeoPhone]

ambush bonus is here:

attrib\attrib\ebps\races\allies\_europeinruins\vehicles\m18_hellcat\GameData\camouflage_ext\first_strike_actions

x1.5 dmg
x2.0 pen

[Hicks58]

Hellcat ambush penetration rates without HVAP:

Panther: L - 32% M - 44% S - 52%
Tiger: L - 44% M - 60.5% S - 75.5%
Jagd: L - 33.98% M - 46.72% S - 55.22%
PIV: L - 87.2% M - 119.9% S - 141.7%
Stug: L - 48% M - 66% S - 78%
Hetzer: L - 80% M - 110% S - 130%

Now for the Hellcat ambush penetration rates with HVAP (with taking into account the extra 25% penetration from the doctrine at the final calculation):

Panther: L - 53.2% M - 73.15% S - 86.45%
Tiger: L - 73.15% M - 100.6% S - 118.9%
Jagd: L - 56.48% M - 77.67% S - 91.8%
PIV: L - 140% M - 199.3% S - 235.6%
Stug: L - 79.8% M - 109.7% S - 129.7%
Hetzer: L - 133% M - 182.9% S - 216.1%

Right, taking a quick glance at this, without HVAP, ambush penetration sucks unless your targetting a PIV or a Hetzer. With HVAP, it becomes almost reliable against Panthers and Jagds, but is still clumsy. Against Tigers and Stugs it'll be worth risking trying an ambush shot without a doubt.

[tank130]

ambush bonus is here:

attrib\attrib\ebps\races\allies\_europeinruins\vehicles\m18_hellcat\GameData\camouflage_ext\first_strike_actions

x1.5 dmg
x2.0 pen

That's impressive Leo. You found that information in less than 8 minutes!!!! Assuming it probably took you a couple of minutes to see the post, read it and reply, that is freaken awesome.....

Carry on. There's nothing more to see here.

[Tymathee]

Then it gets 25% more damage with havap . so 140. Then there's the mutipliers vs certain tanks, so the m18 CAN be fun

[Hicks58]

See above for the ambush penetration rates with and without HVAP.

^

[RikiRude]

i just got hvap, so ill give m18s a whirl with them, i feel that i'll be disappointed, but we will see what happens.

[Tymathee]

See above for the ambush penetration rates with and without HVAP.

^

i saw the penetration rates, i was expressing the damage. Thus why I started it off with "then it gets"

[Hicks58]

My post wasn't aimed at anybody in particular Tym.

Riki, you should be warned that it's possible HVAP is not currently linked to Hellcats, thus it may not work.

If you attempt to ambush shoot a Tiger and nothing happens twice in a row, chances are it's borked.

[Uglysori]

In relation to the values listed with Stugs, shouldn't one also take acct the rear penetration values since Hellcats should be circling to try get side and rear shots off given the range and speed advantage.   

[Tymathee]

My post wasn't aimed at anybody in particular Tym.

Riki, you should be warned that it's possible HVAP is not currently linked to Hellcats, thus it may not work.

If you attempt to ambush shoot a Tiger and nothing happens twice in a row, chances are it's borked.

No, it's there. go to hell cat
camo/first strike/ability actions/action 2 and thats the upgrade. It doesn't get the passive upgrade, only the first strike other wise it would stack.

if u look at req table, it says it needs AP round upgrade for it to work.

it gets
250% penetration (2.5)
150% damage (1.5)
125% accuracy  (1.25)

[RikiRude]

In relation to the values listed with Stugs, shouldn't one also take acct the rear penetration values since Hellcats should be circling to try get side and rear shots off given the range and speed advantage.    

hellcat is more of a find a target, cloak, take a shot, then move back and do it again kind of vehicle. there's no real point in going 1v1 and following through with an attack.

I think its in, firesparks was saying hvap rounds should be working now last night on the launcher... though he didnt specifically say "yes they are working for hellcats" hmm either way ill use them get readjusted to them again.

[Tymathee]

hellcat is more of a find a target, cloak, take a shot, then move back and do it again kind of vehicle. there's no real point in going 1v1 and following through with an attack.

I think its in, firesparks was saying hvap rounds should be working now last night on the launcher... though he didnt specifically say "yes they are working for hellcats" hmm either way ill use them get readjusted to them again.

loook above u

[AmPM]

loook above u

76mm_Hellcat_gun_HVAP is the gun with the HVAP stats. It is not linked to the M18 that I can find.

If you read HVAP the doctrine ability, it says ALL tanks get the bonus, and the Hellcat gets an ambush bonus as well. Note that this bonus to all tanks includes the M10.

[Tymathee]

ahh okay, so it changes the gun, sweet

[spinn72]

Only a 22% chance to Pen a Tiger from the front.. that's odd, I penetrated 4 shots in a row from max range on what was the start of side armour!

[Hicks58]

HVAP isn't working for the Hellcat and I've more or less confirmed it. I've had 2 Ambush shots bounce a PIV, and it was vet 1, so it had no incoming penetration modifiers.

HVAP Ambush at long range is 140% chance for penetration soo... Broken methinks.

[RikiRude]

firesparks told me last night it should be working =/