[US] Field Dressing Replacement

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[RikiRude]

Well think about this, as a T2 alone it might seem pricey to pay that much, it would make sense to get them at a slightly discounted cost, so instead of paying (this is rounding to the nearest 5 or 0) the 70mp for 2 rifles (that's 35mp each), you'd pay 50mp or instead of 100mp for 2 rangers you'd pay 85mp.

Also It would make sense if the T3s boosted the entire concept as well.

You could also have the reinforcements come in at 1HP, so when you bring them on you have to wait a minute for them to heal.

You also have to consider time, how long are these replacements going to take to come in (something else that could be effected by the T3s) ? I think it's fair if your ranger/rifle squad is in the back doing nothing while they wait for the reinforcement/s.

To be fair I wouldn't want something like KCH or anything along those lines to be capable of coming back, but at the same time, would you like it better if there were 8 man ranger squads (comparing to oak leaves) instead?

[Tachibana]

rather than accept the possibility you may have been out played

Wags outplaying somebody? Preposterous!

[Malgoroth]

You bring up some interesting variables to consider. Coming on at low health wouldn't be unreasonable. That way if your attacking the triage you won't have a full health ranger show up and be like 'lolimaranger!'.

And the reinforcement time too. Double or triple the normal reinforcement time depending on vCoH time? More? If triple, I don't think it'd be too much to eliminate any sort of cool down timer so you can just reinforce them one right after the other.

...I haven't played vCoH in forever... what's the reinforcement time on rifles/rangers?

[Malgoroth]

No hicks. Your idea was bad. It was terrible. Reinforcing for pennies worth of munis (since I didn't see a cost in your OP I'm going to assume you intended on FD values) is a fucking stupid idea. You should know it's a stupid idea since apparently you're an EiR genius. Rather than discuss your bad idea and make it a maybe good idea (what Riki is doing for you) you got all pissy, just like I did in the scenario (me raging shouldn't be a fucking surprise to anyone). Don't bring up previous drama in an attempt to make yourself look good AFTER you committed, essentially, the same offense.

Now fucking contribute to the discussion you started (but have no interest in advancing apparently) instead of acting like a dip-shit.

(btw, you've admitted FB is a garbage ability, so it doesn't matter how cheap it is. A pile of shit that only costs 5 cents is still a pile of shit)

[TheVolskinator]

Why don't we all stop playing fanboi and look at it logically.

'Field Recruits' - 40 Mu: This squad has a one time/match use ability that allows it to retreat to that player's Triage Center (note: Triage Center must be constructed in order for this ability to be available) and reinforce up to two squad members. Individual men take 35s to reinforce; only applies to Engineers, Riflemen, Weapons Crews, and the Allied Officer (note: If the Captain is killed in the officer squad, he cannot be reinforced).

[RikiRude]

Why don't we all stop playing fanboi and look at it logically.

'Field Recruits' - 40 Mu: This squad has a one time/match use ability that allows it to retreat to that player's Triage Center (note: Triage Center must be constructed in order for this ability to be available) and reinforce up to two squad members. Individual men take 35s to reinforce; only applies to Engineers, Riflemen, Weapons Crews, and the Allied Officer (note: If the Captain is killed in the officer squad, he cannot be reinforced).

Nooooooooooo way, having the ability to retreat to a triage in it's own would be incredibly powerful, that combined with the reinforcements would be insane!

Retreating to somewhere on the map in EIRR is a total no no, retreat should always only be off map.

[Hicks58]

Lol, yet you would propose having an entire 8th of your manpower dedicated to being able to reinforce a simple two men from your squads.

Furthermore, you could render this entire 8th useless by killing the Triage.

Oh, and that 8th comes from 8 Ranger squads and 8 Riflemen squads going by your intended one third of the entire manpower cost. A third of all that manpower is 1360 MP. That's taking a simple average amount, because you would assume that an Infantry company would have a good deal of infantry.

No other ability in EiRR places such a degree of risk where an entire 8th of your manpower can be INSTANTLY cut.

If you dont want to see Rangers or Rifles getting their squads back together, go cut off the source. Same way you'd go hunt down a vehicle while it repairs by use of flanking units or an off map.

Oh, and just because I didn't mention ANY price change doesn't mean it wouldn't go up some because of the guarantee involved. Actually, wait, it isn't a guarantee if you kill the squad outright or force it to retreat, but I dare say you get the idea.

But a third of the entire squad's cost? Rofl.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

I personally don't see how this could be wrong, it's essentially just Field Dressings, but attached to a Triage Centre instead of dead bodies. I like it better, Field Dressings were rarely useful since even with the doctrine ability that reduced accuracy during use, it made your squad quite defenseless for too long in a firefight, and the corpses would often have already disappeared by the end of the skirmish (assmuing you routed the enemy from the current location), so in total they were pretty much a waste of 25 munitions. I always have them equipped on my Rangers and I've only successfully used them maybe 6 or 7 times.

Tying it to the Triage Centre keeps the benefits of the ability while introducing new risks, as first of all you need a Triage Centre to use the ability, and it renders the ability useless if it's destroyed, which is likely seeing as triages are high-value targets on the battlefield. I support this idea.

[Malgoroth]

So don't give it to ALL your squads. Prioritize. Not even all of my grens/volks have health packs. Would you rather have it on your AT rangers? Your SMG rangers? How about your omni-rangers? Would you rather have it on sticky rifles? BAR rifles? Saying it should be cheap enough to fit easily on 80% of your infantry makes me not like the idea even more. (How much would you propose for this ability btw

It's just my opinion that if you're going to give reinforcement capability to a squad, then the reinforcement element should have an equal cost the squad member it's replacing. That to me seems like the only reasonable way to include reinforcing on map in EiR.

Sorry for being conservative. It just seems amiss. (Is the berg supposed to be able to repair other units on field? If so, I don't like that either.)

[Hicks58]

You say that you should have an equivalent cost for what you can get back for a squad?

Why dont you stop and take a look at it's biggest equivalent - Vehicle repairs.

You can get your ENTIRE tank efficiency back for a fraction of it's entire cost, yet you propose infantry should pay a premium?

By your logic, repair kits for a Tiger or Pershing should cost 550 Fuel or 545 Fuel a piece.

The point of unlocks, upgrades, doctrines, etc, are for an advantage. You specialise in something, you make it better. The cost is that your not specialising in something else.

[Malgoroth]

repair kits =/= reinforcement.

repair kits roughly equal health packs. Same concept.

If you wanna go lower on price 1/4th the cost of the squad MIGHT be reasonable. Having what amounts to 2 extra guys shouldn't cost spare change in resources. Regardless of the tier.

I'm still not sold on the gameplay aspect. No one has convinced me (or even tried to really) that reinforcing on map is conducive to the EiR environment.

[Vermillion_Hawk]

repair kits =/= reinforcement.

repair kits roughly equal health packs. Same concept.

I'd equate repair kits to reinforcements. If repair kits were more like health packs, vehicle damage (similar to a squad casualty, which lowers overall effectiveness of unit) would not be reapired. But that's not so. Indeed, people even speak as if they have two tanks on the battlefield if their tank has a reapir kit on it. However, the "second" tank can be "destroyed" if the first is killed prematurely. Same goes for infantry squads. Keep in mind this isn't just wanton reinforcement, it's just the field dressings, but moved to a different medium.

[TheVolskinator]

I suggested something and the forum supports it? No. Way.

Why not? This is inf doc, not the american faction. Many more players seem to play armor so that they can field ludicrous amounts of T17s and Pershings; why not have this ability overlap the BAR upgrade (and leave my suggested 'Improvised Firemode' upgrade unaffected?) to keep it from helping lolblobs being used even less cautiously?