are KT's and Tigers OP???

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[RikiRude]

Lets see, let's take my RE Brit company, it has 5 17pdr with AP rounds, some Churchills, Brens, a 6pdr, etc.

SOME churchills? I think 5 is more than SOME 

But ampm is right is regards to how much AT you should be bringing for the current meta. All his FU is in his churchs, a normal CW set up would have a FF or two and a CCT, and take out a 17/6 pounder. But you should have at least 5/6 dedicated AT pieces. You also need a call in of two ATGs that you keep set aside. Also mines, use lots of mines!

The problem with mass heavies is that axis will usually be destroying your ATGs, all they need is a sniper and mortar to back them up. They don't really need any other infantry besides that tbh. Another problem is getting your 57 crews killed before being able to use the AP rounds its a waste of muni. I feel it's much easier to organize a group of tanks and some infantry and push than it is to get a crap ton of AT pieces and the correct infantry to counter said offensive.

Hell at 40 pop I can field a combination of KT, sniper, oak leaves, and a pak, nothing short of well used FFs or arty is going to make a dent in it for the most part. Throw some tigers, storms, a mortar, you can pretty much steamroll over anything.

[PonySlaystation]

Another thing, AP rounds for US AT guns should be bound to the gun, not the crew.

[Jokee]

Let me see....

2 Tigers...32 pop
1 KT....18 pop

soooo 50 pop....or 10 ATGs. I think the 10 ATGs would win.

Yea dude..dream on...it may be 50 pop total but since its P1-KT-18pop, P2-Tiger-16pop, P3-Tiger-16pop, that leaves on average 15 pop for infantry and support... So...good luck with 10 ATGs...

[Jokee]

My beef isnt a KT (though yes i do think a JagdTiger is OP beyond hope). But blobs of heavy axis armor. 2 tigers, panthers, KT, etc all coming at your defensive line. Basically yes they will run over your defense kill the AT and kill any supporting tanks. And annihilate any inf support as well. I  mean i cant have a 100% dedicated AT company. Though i think that wouldnt be enough.
My team manged to stop one of these blobs in a 3v3 match, i think b/c the axis were bad players, or didnt coordinate. But they still managed to inflict heavy casualties on us. Only to have another super heavy armor blob come our way. We had No chance in hell. We were so happy to kill a KT and all that armor, just 1 minute later to get smashed completely.

If anyone can post videos of the heavy axis armor blobs losing twice or more. Pleas post.

And these comment about oh make more ATGs. So what if im dealing with inf. Oh make more anti inf. KT/Tigers can double down as AT and AI. Something ATGs cant. So if i make a company dedicated to stopping tanks, im screwed against inf then. And if i make a company to stop inf, im REALLY screwed against tanks.

Exactly...

[Hicks58]

Yea dude..dream on...it may be 50 pop total but since its P1-KT-18pop, P2-Tiger-16pop, P3-Tiger-16pop, that leaves on average 15 pop for infantry and support... So...good luck with 10 ATGs...

3 ATG's on one, 3 ATG's on another, 3 ATG's on the last... Rock paper scissors on who pulls the 4 ATG build. The rest have average 15 pop for infantry and support.

[CrazyWR]

its like people expect to be able to counter this with 1/4 its cost somehow.  I don't understand.  YES IT COSTS A LOT TO KILL OR NEUTER A HEAVY OR SUPERHEAVY.  ALSO, IT COSTS A LOT TO BUY ONE.

[Jokee]

3 ATG's on one, 3 ATG's on another, 3 ATG's on the last... Rock paper scissors on who pulls the 4 ATG build. The rest have average 15 pop for infantry and support.

Like I said...dream on..because you are assuming they are out in the open, waiting to get shot at by 10ATGs...

[DarkSoldierX]

Personaly I think there is nothing wrong with a KT or a tiger.

But I do think some of the supporting units are too strong. My oak leaves KCH(No pills) get around 20-25 kills average. They are 165 mun(not counting faust to demonstrate AI capabilities) with a medkit. Now my rangers get 4-12. I understand grens are worth more but dont get me wrong, I hunted down alot less manpower/mun worth of units. And Rangers are 180 mun for AI duty.

So..... Why does my cheaper unit get way more kills and I am almost guaranteed cost effectiveness when I use them compared to my rangers?

Because they are more survivable, I always eat sherman shot and move em back and heal then get back to the action rinse and repeat.

But my rangers are uncapable of eating P4 and hotchkiss shots for breakfast. So they die and I loose men I cant get back.

Enough of my rambling

In other words tompsons need to be cheaper and PPills bonus should go down slightly. Or Carbines needs to be re-implemented. And strummel nerfed.

Its not hard fighting a tiger or a KT, its hard fighting his oak leaves and too a lesser extent his stormies when I don't have a nice AI buff for my infantry.

[EliteGren]

Rangers kill less because axis inf is stronger with less men. It's easier to get alot of kills on a unit as axis because allied squads are larger and fragile.

[AmPM]

Yea, take Rangers with SMGs up against Volks grens and see how many kills you rack up.

It's all about men per squad.

[smurfORnot]

My oak leaves KCH(No pills) get around 20-25 kills average.

good for u,then I guess u dont need any more inf units except 4-5 squads of khc...

[DarkSoldierX]

Stop being axis fanboys.

I am going to give allies benefit of the doubt that he ate WM gren squads not normal luftwaffe squads and volks and I am going to say the oak leaves killed trash.

Say I get 11 kills on my rangers. Thats two gren squads and lets say a pak.

860 manpower eaten right there.

Oh hay is oak leave rapgeage time No pills we are natural athletes

I kill 3 rifleman squads and a 57. Thats 21 kills. (around average)

980 manpower eaten.

Who was more cost effective?

good for u,then I guess u dont need any more inf units except 4-5 squads of khc...

yeah I have 6 oak leaves squads and like 4 grens and 2 volks. I usualy dont touch the last 2 of my squads. Thank god for survivability.

[RikiRude]

dark i agree, you should make a separate topic tbh though, because i believe that to be a pretty big issue itself.

and its true, its not so much the heavies and super heavies its what backs them up at times. OLKCH are a joke, as long as I don't run into a croc I can run over almost all allied infantry except for thompson rangers and BARs, unless there are 3 BAR squads, you can usually kill them before you get pinned with pills and such.

[spinn72]

RRs are a piece of shit...against tiger? Or Panther? Meh...providing it actually hits, its like a scratch on the paintjob

CHALLENGE?
I've had 2x squads of RR's take out a tiger on their own in a heavy city (Against a good player mind you), tiger turret can't turn fast enough to destroy the bastards .
Anyone who underestimates RR's is taking a massive risk. Not only are they amazing AT, they also take out ATG's in two volleys and can have hand grenades. Without a doctrine, AB have found an even balance.

P.S. you just made me bring out my AB account again, thanks

On the whole balance of KT/Tigers etc,
Truthfully, KT's are only as good as the TEAM is. Nobody who has a KT on the field is adequately able to help it, it requires a whole hearted effort and communication from one teammate to assist the KT to become close to cost-efficiency. I'm sure we've all been in games where a KT has got 3 kills and died, and we've been in others where it's closer to 70 and hasn't repaired yet. Teamwork is the only reason that KT's can become effective.

Tigers on the other hand are those units that good players can utilize on their own and provide their own support to. Being faster and less pop, axis players are able to support them more effectively.

With KT's -- due to the strength of Terror doctrine it'd be wise to have your shrek grens with no aim time or pills as your only form of support to add some strength, otherwise, one of the supporting units that nobody brings to assist KT's are pio's with mines. For 15mu you'll be able to lead enemy M10's to their death quickly, avoid being stickied, and a heap of other things. More people need to adopt mines!

[Jokee]

CHALLENGE?
I've had 2x squads of RR's take out a tiger on their own in a heavy city (Against a good player mind you), tiger turret can't turn fast enough to destroy the bastards .
Anyone who underestimates RR's is taking a massive risk. Not only are they amazing AT, they also take out ATG's in two volleys and can have hand grenades. Without a doctrine, AB have found an even balance.

P.S. you just made me bring out my AB account again, thanks

Happy to help

Anyway...this whole argument of sorts made me realize something. Especially last few comments on RRs.

So...Usefulness of Uselessness depends on the battlefield and the current situation. When you have a tiger in a relatively open field, your RRs are relatively useless because you need to get in range first, then it takes them a moment to aim and fire and by then the tiger already fires at you (and as you know Murphy's Laws, the shot will just happen to kill both of your RR guys) but if you fight in a heavy city, it is easy to outflank the tiger and hit it where it hurts.

So it all boils down to the situation you find yourself in.

[spinn72]

Happy to help

Anyway...this whole argument of sorts made me realize something. Especially last few comments on RRs.

So...Usefulness of Uselessness depends on the battlefield and the current situation. When you have a tiger in a relatively open field, your RRs are relatively useless because you need to get in range first, then it takes them a moment to aim and fire and by then the tiger already fires at you (and as you know Murphy's Laws, the shot will just happen to kill both of your RR guys) but if you fight in a heavy city, it is easy to outflank the tiger and hit it where it hurts.

So it all boils down to the situation you find yourself in.

FINALLY
SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS!
This is a great day EIRR players everywhere.

I wish everyone thought like you did

[brn4meplz]

Or the situation you create for yourself. Rarely is a bad situation a game of chance

[BigDick]

if you use airbornes on an open area running against a tiger it will make big boom and leave bloody mess 
KT or jagd is a bit different story.

In the past of eir people used smoke on that area and airbornes became one of the deadliest AT unit in the game.
I don't see this anymore... last dude who i saw using that was elitegren.

If you don't want to use smoke (even when it should be now easier with fireup airborne armored airborne mortar) you need to support your airbornes by a tank (eg. sherman or m10)

[CrazyWR]

Almost all the good AB players are gone now, and the ones that aren't don't play it right now b/c there is no doctrine.

[spinn72]

if you use airbornes on an open area running against a tiger it will make big boom and leave bloody mess 
KT or jagd is a bit different story.

In the past of eir people used smoke on that area and airbornes became one of the deadliest AT unit in the game.
I don't see this anymore... last dude who i saw using that was elitegren.

If you don't want to use smoke (even when it should be now easier with fireup airborne armored airborne mortar) you need to support your airbornes by a tank (eg. sherman or m10)

this is why AB players win.
Smoke + attack ground and you'll be too busy rolling around on the floor laughing to notice that you just eliminated the entire enemy team.