[WE] Puma vs M8

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[NightRain]

replays or doesnt happen

+1

[DarkSoldierX]

How about I post a replay of a pershing killed by a tiger, therefore pershing MUST get a effectiveness increase and price increase because thats only whats fair according to how you people are thinking.


So no axis dont need a super LV they have super heavies.

Again stop the biased madness. You don't need good everything. Factions have strengths and weaknesses. Axis overall have weaker light vehicles and its supposed to be that way.

[RikiRude]

This whole topic is complete bullcrap.

I'll see WM with better pumas when allies get some heavy tanks. There is absolutely no reason why axis need better LVs. I mean this is obviously comparing US and WM and lets take a look at the way things stand.

Infantry:
WM has volks and grens, volks are cheaper than rifles, and in better cover will beat them. Grens no matter what will beat rifles. Not to mention they have KCH.

Support weapons:
Everyone can agree WM mg and mortar are better than allies, if you have units to recrew, people will always pick a mg42 over a .30. Not to mention WM has access to the nebel.

ATG: tbh, i think these are balanced.

Tanks: Axis tanks in general are better, sherman will always beat P4 if sherman invests in upgun, even if a P4 has skirts. I think most people would agree that P4 needs a slight price decrease (skirts could be cheaper as well) or upgun should cost fu.

Then we have LVs:
I think if anything puma upgun should be 7 pop maybe. Other than that, pumas are fine. I rack up kills with my normal puma all the time, though I have an officer near it buffing it.

[RoyalHants]

This whole topic is complete bullcrap.

I'll see WM with better pumas when allies get some heavy tanks.

Centurion plox

[NightRain]

having puma as a cheap thing means spam, but we have limit that prevents spam aka pools. Anyone who is crazy enough to try and run a puma spam just shoots himself in the foot.

[AmPM]

This whole topic is complete bullcrap.

I'll see WM with better pumas when allies get some heavy tanks. There is absolutely no reason why axis need better LVs. I mean this is obviously comparing US and WM and lets take a look at the way things stand.

Infantry:
WM has volks and grens, volks are cheaper than rifles, and in better cover will beat them. Grens no matter what will beat rifles. Not to mention they have KCH.

Support weapons:
Everyone can agree WM mg and mortar are better than allies, if you have units to recrew, people will always pick a mg42 over a .30. Not to mention WM has access to the nebel.

ATG: tbh, i think these are balanced.

Tanks: Axis tanks in general are better, sherman will always beat P4 if sherman invests in upgun, even if a P4 has skirts. I think most people would agree that P4 needs a slight price decrease (skirts could be cheaper as well) or upgun should cost fu.

Then we have LVs:
I think if anything puma upgun should be 7 pop maybe. Other than that, pumas are fine. I rack up kills with my normal puma all the time, though I have an officer near it buffing it.

HVAP Pershing rapes a Tiger, no contest. HE Pershing is still great, normal Pershing is still great. Churchill Croc is wtf rape.

Next please?

Puma Upgun could be less pop and not be OP.

[Hicks58]

Actually, a Tiger has a 70% chance to penetrate a Pershing... Meaning if a Tiger penetrates every single shot, which is not beyond the realms of possibility, the Tiger can plausibly win. Win or not, that HVAP Pershing is limping away from that fight and is easy pickings for the first hard AT piece that sniffs it.

HE Pershing is no better than a standard Pershing, the HE rounds are only of any use when the enemy is doing blobbing to the degree of three squads or more. Otherwise, standard shells are better.

[Unkn0wn]

This thread is about pumas and m8s, not tigers and pershings. Back on topic please.

[Poppi]

im more for u get what you pay for.
So cheaper puma or less pop puma. I mean they arent totally useless. They do handle infantry pretty well,( ostwind i think is better). So to discard them like they are a motorbike is nonsense. But im not really for changing their stats or their role by speeding them up.

[RikiRude]

my pumas that i normally dont have a problem with, failed to do any damage to a commando sniper at point blank which was disheartening.

[Demon767]

i have 8 pumas in my company, each kill 5-10 infantry.
 
I will welcome a price decrease, mwahaha

[AmPM]

That is not really all that impressive....

5-10 infantry kills happens on a normal grenadier squad with grenades pretty easy.

[PonySlaystation]

i have 8 pumas in my company, each kill 5-10 infantry.
 
I will welcome a price decrease, mwahaha

Considering the amount of time it takes to get that amount of kills on a puma and the weak armor it has we can assume the following
1: You play against new players who have absolutely no idea how to counter pumas well.
or
2: You focus most of the game on your pumas and support your teammates with them instead of taking any action yourself (aka babysitting), however with this strategy you're more of a leech on your team, kind of like someone who would bring out hummels in his first call-in.

So as you probably know it won't matter if you get 1 or 50 kills because that hummel has been taking up most of your population the entire game. So the fact is you having 8 of an high pop, high cost and relatively weak unit is not a good thing. Getting 5-10 kills on a puma is possible although it takes a considerable amount of time, however getting it on 8 of your pumas is quite impossible unless both statement 1 and 2 are true.

The puma armored car is too expensive for what it does. It costs almost as much manpower as most tanks (which perform better at every role) and if you have many of them they're also a big drain on your fuel. It's just as expensive as most LV even though it's the only one without any upgrades or abilities and it perform worse at both AI and AT and even scouting duties.

High cost, low survivability, low damage: well then what is it good for? I would say hunting snipers but bikes already perform that role better than the more expensive puma + bike combo.

[DarkSoldierX]

You kno wut? My .30 HMG doesnt get enough kills and doesnt surpress good enough compared to the MG42.

Lets buff him so he is just as effective as a MG42 but increase his price. Sounds fair right? All these sprinting pgrens and KCH need to know their place.

[PonySlaystation]

The .30 HMG is at a much lower cost and pool value than the MG42, it has AP burst. It has shorter range but does more damage.

If the cost of a puma was reduced to about 240 manpower and 50 fuel and had an mg gunner or similar upgrade it would not be considered so underpowered.

[AmPM]

You kno wut? My .30 HMG doesnt get enough kills and doesnt surpress good enough compared to the MG42.

Lets buff him so he is just as effective as a MG42 but increase his price. Sounds fair right? All these sprinting pgrens and KCH need to know their place.

If the Puma doesn't have a place in the game, then it needs to be fixed. The .30 is a great HMG for what you use it for, support and damage.

[DarkSoldierX]

It does have a place in the game. It zooms around the map moderately killing infantry and flanking ATGs and raping them. Something P4s can't do against any opponent with a jeep.

[AmPM]

P4's can do it, Ostwinds can do it, etc.

It does a pretty terrible job, having less AT/AI ability than an M8, Stag, T17.

[DarkSoldierX]

A p4/ost cant flank atgs with jeep support and puma gets to the infantry faster.

As far as the AT/Ai ability, guess what, Pershing has less AT/AI ability than the Tiger, KT, jagd. Lets buff that too.

[AmPM]

A p4/ost cant flank atgs with jeep support and puma gets to the infantry faster.

As far as the AT/Ai ability, guess what, Pershing has less AT/AI ability than the Tiger, KT, jagd. Lets buff that too.

It is buffed, please see the Armor Doctrine. Any Pershing comparison must be made using those doctrine abilities.

Puma should get more buffs to it from the doctrines. Blitz could give it more sight and accuracy, Terror could give it Suppression Fire,  Defensive....sucks.