[WE] Puma vs M8

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[AmPM]

But the thing is, allied armour isnt superior. It requires less micro for that tiger to be efficecent then that firefly to be effiecent, but i admit its a good tank.

I still believe that a few doctrinal buffs for puma and AC, thats fine, some doc's already have some buffs for them though. But if they get buffs I believe another allied unit equivelent should get buff outside of armour doctrine as they have enough buffs for that.

It is though in its category.

Allied LVs are superior.

Allied Medium Tanks are Superior (includes Churchill VI) and in some cases cheaper.

Allied Heavy Tanks are just as efficient for their cost as Axis (Pershing/Tiger/Church Croc)

Allied TD's are superior to Axis, the M10 is an amazingly good unit.

Add in Doctrine abilities from the Armor Doctrine/RE/RCA and it gets retarded.

The Sherman Jumbo is somewhat unique, sort of like a tougher Churchill MKVI. With TR it becomes a great medium tank killer as well.

[Poppi]

It is though in its category.

Allied LVs are superior.

Allied Medium Tanks are Superior (includes Churchill VI) and in some cases cheaper.

Allied Heavy Tanks are just as efficient for their cost as Axis (Pershing/Tiger/Church Croc)

Allied TD's are superior to Axis, the M10 is an amazingly good unit.

well u cant just say superior. They have their roles.
M10 isnt really all that. If u keep a good defense and stop m10 from circling. They are super weak tanks. And shreks eat them up. Even rifle nades can kill that or m18.

Not sure how LVs are superior. I like Maraders. ATG on wheels. Ostwind owns any infantry at medium to close range.
Axis front armor on some of the "lesser" tanks other than Tigers or KT are super tough and bounce off m10 frontal m10 shots.

Oh ya fuck jagdtiger. Not sure why the devs even put that in the game.

[AmPM]

M10 has same HP as STuG, a better gun, and better mobility, not to mention a turret.

On topic of LVs, allied LV's are generally great AI, with decent AT abilities. That dual purpose and utility makes them much better than a single purpose LV that has similar cost.

[smurfORnot]

well u cant just say superior. They have their roles.
M10 isnt really all that. If u keep a good defense and stop m10 from circling. They are super weak tanks. And shreks eat them up. Even rifle nades can kill that or m18.

Not sure how LVs are superior. I like Maraders. ATG on wheels. Ostwind owns any infantry at medium to close range.
Axis front armor on some of the "lesser" tanks other than Tigers or KT are super tough and bounce off m10 frontal m10 shots.

Oh ya fuck jagdtiger. Not sure why the devs even put that in the game.

hmm,why havent I remembred to counter m10 with rifle nades
marder and ostwind are lv's?

as u say for m10...same thing with tiger and kt,if u keep good defense,wall of atg's etc they are very weak

[Mister Schmidt]

Rifle Grenades kill tanks now? Fuck, obviously I missed that part of the update...

And a Marder is a LV? No. It's a tank destroyer. It even uses the Armour pool. Ostwind, is a medium tank.

And you have played against a Jagdtiger like once, I was there when you did, and you were trying to kill it with bazookas, it really isn't all that great if you know how to counter it properly.

[BigDick]

isnt ostwind a bit slow for lv?

its a slow lightvehicle than 

Give Ostwind PIV armour... And watch as Zooks, AT Rifles, and all LV's become borderline useless against it.

if you would give ostwind P4 armor zooks would do 60% more damage actually


but back on topic:

no one really needs the puma, if you want a light vehicle to kill infantry you use the ostwind (even when its slow and more expensive but at least it kills something)

[Hicks58]

I've always seen the 20mm Puma as the hard counter to RR's tbh. The phase armour makes them a bugger to hit, and you use a pair of Pumas to tear up the RR's.

Perhaps they will find their niche again once Airborne is back in fully.

Oh, and 60% more damage, but a whole lot less penetration.

[8thRifleRegiment]

Meh... Pumas once had thier place. But i doubt they will be back for a while

[BigDick]

penetration is still almost 50% (probably the most are not used to see P4s at all or P4s used against infantry without skirts)

but im not saying that ostwind needs P4 armor or something and topic is more about the useless pumas that suck nuts  


and according special use of pumas against airbornes
the puma does shit against units in cover

i wouldn't fight pumas with airbornes alone (thats like fighting shermans with P4s) but i would not use pumas to fight airbornes either

[Hicks58]

Pair of Puma's, backed up with a hard AT piece and you've an effective AB hunting platform going on. Lure the RR's away with a tasty looking Tiger or other high value armoured target, then swoop the Puma's in to tear them up before help arrives.

[TheVolskinator]

Assuming a flotilla of M10s isnt right outside of your sight range

[Heartmann]

The m8 does what a 2cm and a up gun puma do combined imo, and i think that is whats bugging ppl, 1 m8=less micro 2 pumas that have diff roles= more micro. But tbh imo 1 upgun puna win vs 1 m8.

 Further, i agree with hicks pumas rape ab, as soon as i see one i run like a baby to cower behind my atgs

[puddin]

The m8 does what a 2cm and a up gun puma do combined imo, and i think that is whats bugging ppl, 1 m8=less micro 2 pumas that have diff roles= more micro. But tbh imo 1 upgun puna win vs 1 m8.

 Further, i agree with hicks pumas rape ab, as soon as i see one i run like a baby to cower behind my atgs

And the prices and pop are done accordingly.

Heres the Real issue....

M-8 gets Buffs, Puma gets almost none in any teir, none specific to it, it gets no love, Its forgotten much like the ostwind and Stuh. 

No direct buffs means not a whole lot of fun for the unit.

[RikiRude]

I think if they get doctrine buffs, slight changes to their pop/price and things will be good, and i think while they are at it, ostwind and stuh need the same doctrine love as said, i wonder if there are other units that haven't gotten love in the other factions?

[Heartmann]

Well i must say this discussion has fulled my urge to try out a coy based on axis LV, just it got fulled during the Gwagon debate best way to find out if ppl know what they talkin about ^^

[spinn72]

EDIT: will just post link so it hopefully won't get removed!
http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/memes-he-owns-a-horse.jpg

[cloud234]

Well i must say this discussion has fulled my urge to try out a coy based on axis LV, just it got fulled during the Gwagon debate best way to find out if ppl know what they talkin about ^^

Vanilla Puma just need its gun buffed. Gwagon is actually quite powerful. I've no idea why people say Gwagon sucks.

[Demon767]

Okay. Pumas are like throwing a 12 sided dice and hoping it will land on 13...

[Heartmann]

Acctually tbh bee playing some games, and the 50 mm puma sucks ballz, it is by far the worst investment i ever did, the 2 cm on the other hand WOW that thing is amazing, reduced the pool value and mp abit but sure, it even does pretty mean dmg to stags tbh!

[RikiRude]

yeah normal puma vs commandos is a super joke, i think that's the only infantry i've truly had problems with, it's about as bad at killing units as the flame ht.