[CW] Button Should Be Gone.

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[Hicks58]

I've made my point and you've neglected to mention a suitable replacement for button.

Unless you can come up with something suitable, it should stay.

[RoyalHants]

Your forgettng that none of those apart from bren with ap rounds kill the LV quickly and by the time it is dead its done the damage

The ability to disable a tank for a short duration of which 5 secs the tank is still firing is something thats usefull for a competent playertbh you just sound like you've lost a vet tank to it.

[NightRain]

Hicks, British have what none else has. A Squad dedicated for Anti tank and Engineering. Sappers. Do not underestimate these guys. Firing over obstacles is a life saver and also a powerful ability. PIAT is no joke as it deals (or at least dealt) more damage than schreck and zook. You get them at laughable price of 180 manpower. The pool cost is high to prevent piat blobs of doom. Plus PIAT while not so excellent anymore, can snipe infantry everynow and then which is quite a comical sight.

I repeat the counters vs Axis Light vehicles.

PIAT, Staghound, Stuart, Bren MMG with AP, Boys AT(Unlock) and Tetrach(Unlock). All of those have the ability to take on Light vehicles.

Additionally. Cromwell, ATG and Firefly oh, also Clowncar. Universal Carrier with PIAT squad inside it.

[Hicks58]

PIAT's do not fill the same role as Stickies, Fausts, AT grenades or Button. All of these make vehicles and tanks stay the fuck away from you.

PIAT's? Yes, they are excellent AT pieces when used correctly, but one, they are 6 pool rather than the 3 pool of Tommies, and vehicles laugh at attempts made by PIAT's to land hits on them.

And STILL, you suggest no replacement. At the moment your suggesting you leave a hole in British mainline infantry options which no other faction suffers from.

[NightRain]

PIAT's do not fill the same role as Stickies, Fausts, AT grenades or Button. All of these make vehicles and tanks stay the fuck away from you.

PIAT's? Yes, they are excellent AT pieces when used correctly, but one, they are 6 pool rather than the 3 pool of Tommies, and vehicles laugh at attempts made by PIAT's to land hits on them.

And STILL, you suggest no replacement. At the moment your suggesting you leave a hole in British mainline infantry options which no other faction suffers from.

I see no reason why you count in AT grenades. While cheap they require the target to remain absolutely still therefore PIAT and AT Grenade work in similar way therefore related. Your logic used.

PIAT drives the same role as Bazooka and Schreck(Which also fails vs Light vehicles). The 'hole' you speak of is easy to replace with more variety of the units. Stuarts are excellent light vehicle hunters and so are Staghounds. This 'hole' does not effect the British gameplay. In return of losing this they should get Hawkins mines to slow down vehicles similar of volks. This cap fixed.

[Hicks58]

AT grenades are counted in because they work as a deterrent, just like Fausts, Stickies and Button. They affect both vehicles and tanks. If you want to rush your LV around the back of that ATG then up close then any of these 4 options are going to make you pay for that.

No other faction needs to rely on tanks or vehicles to do what your simple mainline infantry is capable of.

Hawkins mines are a moot point. Yes, Volks have slow mines, but they STILL have fausts.

I'm giving you a clear cut reason why button IS there, I'm accepting that button is to a degree broken, but YOU are not accepting that it is filling an actual role the the British arsenal - A role that you are not willing to suggest a replacement for, thus making it sound like you want to willy nilly kick the British army in the nuts.

[BigDick]

PIAT's do not fill the same role as Stickies, Fausts, AT grenades or Button. All of these make vehicles and tanks stay the fuck away from you.

thats exactly what piats do too ontop of that they hit hard first flanking tanks before they scare them away

as long as you drive away the tank will be fine most times (like kiting of shrek/zook) but when you drive towards the squad (and at gun when its placed close) you will get hit by the piats

how should we call that other than "stay the fuck away"?
you should have seen one of smokaz latest broadcast yesterday...he lost a full health skirted p4 to a single piat squad in a building...exactly because of the reason that he drove past it and not backwards....

PIAT's? Yes, they are excellent AT pieces when used correctly, but one, they are 6 pool rather than the 3 pool of Tommies, and vehicles laugh at attempts made by PIAT's to land hits on them.

since when you need to spam tons of infantry based handhelt AT to get into trouble with pool value using piats?

furthermore these units are even more useful as ATG support because they come with their own vehicle disablers (called mines) that can be placed to cover flanks

[CommanderHolt]

Is there anyway for Button to affect different Vehicles differently? I'm guessing its probably not possible but I'm listing this up.

Against Axis LV: Same as before

Against Axis Open-topped Tanks: (Ostwind and Wirbelwind): -5 Duration

Against Axis Tanks: -9 Duration, Retain ability to shoot main gun.

Mainly I see Buttoning more heavily affect people in lightly skined vehicles then in ones with Armor that the crew should reasonably have expectations of holding up to small arms.

[NightRain]

Wehrmacht has to rely on vehicles to disable enemy light vehicles. Even with Schrecks there and fausts, you'll only get to use Faust once if going on vs a light vehicle due to high DPS and that doesn't cut it.

While you put it that way, I still rely on my point of Boys AT and PIATs doing the job vs light vehicles and slowmines in addition. Heck normal mines too as they come with PIATs if bought. Additionally Brens can fight versus Scout Cars and ACs in cover and damage them. Not necessarily destroy them of course but to force them off. Also remember: The closer the LV is, the higher chance of PIAT hitting it is. Therefore by logically thinking the LV has to snipe from distance which gives more or less time for whatever support there is to face vs light vehicles. Boys AT just smashes any light vehicle.

[Hicks58]

LV's have the speed to be able to drive past PIAT's at medium to long range. A PIV will struggle with this, and of course it will, 'tis a bloody tank.

A LV tries to close into a Button, Faust, Sticky or AT grenade however... You get the idea.

If you have to get a crap load of PIAT's to fufill the same role that your Tommies should be doing for AT, your going to need a healthy supply of BOTH Tommies and Sappers... Which WILL rapidly cut into your pool. Every other faction can just use their mainline infantry alone as vehicle/tank deterrents for their mainline AT, negating the need for separate squads thus, needing less pool.

Mines are utility, not direct AT deterrents. Again, the role that button plays is being avoided.

Perhaps you do not see that I do indeed find button broken? The issue here is that something needs to fill the role that button DOES fill at the moment, albeit in a less broken way.

[Mysthalin]

Volks a viable supporting piece of AT? Really? As the most avid volks-spammer in the game I will tell you that's patently untrue, unless you are fielding 3 volks squads per each enemy tank.

For an in-depth explanation what danger stickies pose to axis tanks - ask david how he uses his P4s to face the ATG+sticky bomb combination. You'll be surprised by the answer, no doubt.

And seriously.. magnetic AT nades? Those ridiculously shit things that won't ever hit anything that's moving and have stupidly low range? They're by no means a deterrent.


The brits have a deterrent(albeit it is largely not necessary). It's called the PIAT squad. Use it, works wonders. Cheaper in popcap than any other faction's deterrent as well.

[brn4meplz]

The complete removal of Button is highly unlikely. What is more possible and likely is a reworking of Button. I can say it's been a discussion point for some time.(months infact) The chief problem with button is that it's an ability which completely locks down a tank for an extended duration at a healthy range. this issue is compounded by the fact that it's on some vehicles with speed and durability. For the purpose of this discussion(and the almost soon to be future) lets only use the Tommy Squad version.

The Tommy squad is one of the most durable squad on the field. It having an option disable a vehicle is perfectly fine given the structure of the British faction. A problem arises however when the disable is a total lockdown on such a long duration, on top of an Upgrade that enhances the performance of the unit vs Infantry.

The argument that Button doesn't hurt the tank is irrelevant. Anyone who has played more then 3 games of EiR knows vacuum balance isn't possible. The game is structured around the team, and around the company design, and around the cohesion of these elements.

While button is similar in role to Stickies, Magnetic AT Nades, and Fausts. It is also entirely different. You cannot Sticky a grenadier, or Attach a Magnetic At grenade to a sniper, and while you can Faust a rifle squad it's not very cost effective. With the way Button currently works and the platform it comes with, the best comparison would be to give Grenadiers Button with the purchase of an LMG.

Which doesn't sound very fun for Allied players.

Neither is Button fun for Axis players. It was simply an accepted necessary evil at a time when the British had lousy Anti-Tank options. It's been carried over for any number of reasons. But like alot of things that don't fit very well in EiR gameplay it will need to adapt.

This does not mean it needs to be removed, there is a need for the disable provided, just not in such a broken way.

[Spartan_Marine88]

and while you can Faust a rifle squad it's not very cost effective.

No but its completly cost effective against officer units, and various units like rangers



But seeing as how nobody has suggested it, why not just give it a wind up time. or maybe a half second (anything more would render button useless) where button does absolutly nothing but give the buttoned symbol above a tank before kicking in.

[RikiRude]

although it would be fair if it had a start up animation or something since thats how stickies and fausts work. it would make more sense to have a set up animation rather than an exhaustion. or if you have both make them short.

[jackmccrack]

Simplest solution to Button is to bring in anti-infantry infantry (KCH, assault grens) with your Tank. Then the Brit has to decide either to button the tank, or kill the infantry with the Brens.

[Spartan_Marine88]

Simplest solution to Button is to bring in anti-infantry infantry (KCH, assault grens) with your Tank. Then the Brit has to decide either to button the tank, or kill the infantry with the Brens.

combined arms? what a novel idea

here i thought this was like command and conquer/starcraft and just zerg/tank rush things

[jackmccrack]

Ya I know crazy aint it

Axis should be glad Button doesn't buff the Brensquad as well like Assault does XD what a joke

[jackmccrack]

Sorry back to the topic. Button is not an I-win button.

[AmPM]

Simplest solution to Button is to bring in anti-infantry infantry (KCH, assault grens) with your Tank. Then the Brit has to decide either to button the tank, or kill the infantry with the Brens.

Or just use MMG carriers to button and suppress, then proceed to ignore infantry. Button is easily the best deterrent to any armour in the game.

[Tymathee]

maybe you can switch the ability a bit. Get rid of button all together and give rifle nades an AT like nade that can damage like a sticky or at nade that's a 1-2 shot deal.