Another Look at Certain Munitions Prices?

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[Illegal_Carrot]

So for a while now, I've felt that the Munitions prices on some lesser-used or lower-costing items/abilities should be looked at. Nothing here is a major or vital balance change, but they would go a long way in improving the cost-effectiveness of some abilities, and maybe some other ones will actually get taken once in a while. These tweaks would be quick and easy to implement, so I see no reason not to include these in the next patch, whenever that may be.
For now, I've only included Wehrmacht Defensive upgrades, because that's the faction that got me thinking about this, but I'm sure there are plenty of small tweaks that could be useful elsewhere, in other factions/doctrines.

Medkits; Medkits are a must-have on certain Axis infantry, but you almost never see them on other units (support teams, Pioneers, etc). Adjust their cost to fit more appropriately with a unit's cost/role/surviveability/need/etc might actually see them being taken on these units, or taken more sparingly on other units which always seem to carry them every game. Here's how they should be:

Mortar...........5Mu (currently 15Mu)
Minesweeper..5 (currently cannot purchase Medkits)
HMG42.........10 (currently15)
PaK38 ATG..10 (currently 15)
Nebel............10 (currently 15)
Sniper...........20 (currently 15)
Officer...........20 (currently 15)
Flak 88..........20 (currently 15)

Keep Volks, Grens and KCH at 15, 20 and 25Mu, respectively.

Repairs; As with Medkits, some units will always have Repairs, and some never will.
Here's how it should be:
Bike..............5 (currently 10)
Axis HT.........10 (currently 20)
Flammen HT..15 (currently 20)

Keep all other vehicles the same. Also, some sort of mechanic where Bikes/Schimms (and recon vehicles in general) can move while repairing would be awesome. Currently the above vehicles aren't really worth spending the small amount of Munitions on to attempt to repair. Lowering the costs of repairs on these units would hopefully make keeping these vehicles alive a viable gameplay option, instead of just throwing them away in suicide rushes that are 100% guaranteeing to get them killed.

Infantry Upgrades; these minor tweaks would again be useful for making some options more or less viable. Good changes all around, in terms of making certain units/tactics more useful, instead of the same cookie-cutter strategies we're used to seeing.
This is how it should be:
Pio Bunker..........10 (currently 5)
Pio MG Bunker......45 (currently 55)
Pio Flamer...........45 (currently 55)
Volks Grenades....20 (currently 25)
KCH Faust..........40 (currently 50) *or* +1 use
KCH Assault........35 (currently 50)

I'm perfectly willing and able to explain or defend anything listed here, but as of now I'm in too much pain (from a nasty back injury) to write up a detailed explanation for everything. Anyways, have at it.

[TheVolskinator]

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAMN. Reading now, this looks extensive/well done/logical/hard to troll.

KK. Read it. Me gusta. Only things I have an issue with are the Flammen, MG bunker, and kch faust price changes. They promote piospam (thank god relic patched it in vcoh, and i reaaaally dont want to see it here, its easy enough to mass-flame stuff as it is.).  MG Bunkers arent entirely viable in an EiR environment, and are rare because of their pop occupation and lack of mobility. A 3 pop MG is better then a 2 pop bunker that cant move or reposition to avoid being flanked. KCH fausts are already an issue with certain players that spam KCH in a silly fashion, and where mass-fausting can alpha strike anything up to a TD and even a british Staghound.

[Mister Schmidt]

Umm, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but uhhh, Weapons Cache.

[brn4meplz]

Until we actually assign numbers to the Weapons cache we can't use it as a crutch to price balances. Currently nothing has a value assigned.

[Illegal_Carrot]

Umm, I don't mean to rain on your parade, but uhhh, Weapons Cache.

So? Weapons cache or no, some of these upgrades cost too much or too little in terms of Munitions, and altering their Cache cost isn't going to make a weapon more or less cost-effective.

Weapons Cache also does not affect Medkits, Repairs, or some of the upgrades listed.

Only things I have an issue with are the Flammen, MG bunker, and kch faust price changes

I hear you, but I really don't know how much of an issue it'd be.

Lowering the cost of the Pio Flamer by a mere 10Mu isn't going make spamming them suddenly viable, but it would fit in with how vulnerable the unit really is as a two-man, low-HP squad.

I've only seen one MG Bunker built in the last several months of playing, so that in itself has got to be indicative of their effectiveness (or lack thereof). There's no reason to take an MG Bunker for 55Mu when you can take an MG + Bunker for 45Mu, plus a little MP. I'm sure I don't need to go over the pros and cons of each option, but needless to say, the HMG + Bunker combo is better in virtually every way, and it's ridiculous to have to pay more for the clearly inferior option.

As for KCH, with their insanely high resource and pool cost, I have no idea how you could spam them effectively. Volks spam is exponentially more viable/effective, and the idea here was to give the KCH Faust some sort of edge over the Volks Faust.

But obviously the entire list isn't going to be perfect, and I appreciate the feedback, Volsk!

[DarkSoldierX]

Carrot, Did you miss the part were they said some upgrades cost will go down with implementation of weapon cache cost?

[smurfORnot]

I use medikit upgrade on pios when I give em flame,I use it on mg's qite a lot and always on mortars,on paks very rarely.
but yea,those 2 man pios are quite vunerable 70munition investment,dont rly see how pio spam would be suddenly viable cuz of high pool cost of pios + they drop like flies when something focus fire on them.
Medikit on mortar,5,lol. It should be atleast 10 if not remain the same.

But overall,very solid suggestions

[RikiRude]

medkit on volks should be 10mu, and mortar should be 20, wm mortar is pretty hearty since it only has to deal with puny allied mortars. i always try to get a medkit on my mortars.

[Hicks58]

Medkits on a mortar are basically a no-brainer at the moment.

Drop them to 5 munitions and you may as well just incorporate them into the unit cost.

[AmPM]

Carrot, Did you miss the part were they said some upgrades cost will go down with implementation of weapon cache cost?

Did you miss the part where the weapon cache isn't implemented?

[WildZontar]

Did you miss the part where the weapon cache isn't implemented?

Did you miss the part where these ideas would be adressed once the weapon cache was implemented?

[EIRRMod]

Weapons Cache also does not affect Medkits, Repairs, or some of the upgrades listed.

Wait what?  Sure it does ;p

[AmPM]

Did you miss the part where these ideas would be adressed once the weapon cache was implemented?

Nope, nowhere does he state this is for when Weapon Cache is implemented.

[Hicks58]

Wait what?  Sure it does ;p

Psst, this comment only applies once you've got it working. ;P

[PonySlaystation]

Are the pool values in yet?

[DarkSoldierX]

Nope, nowhere does he state this is for when Weapon Cache is implemented.

You don't even play the game anymore. Sure you should even talk?

Are the pool values in yet?

Do they look like they are in? Lol.

The might get pool the upcoming patch (if it ever comes)

[AmPM]

And yet, nowhere does he mention the upgrades he's talking about being linked to Weapon Cache, amazing right?

So? Weapons cache or no, some of these upgrades cost too much or too little in terms of Munitions, and altering their Cache cost isn't going to make a weapon more or less cost-effective.

- Illegal Carrot

[DarkSoldierX]

And yet, nowhere does he mention the upgrades he's talking about being linked to Weapon Cache, amazing right?
 - Illegal Carrot

Are you crazy? It talks ALL about the weapons cache.

Hey guys,


Undoubtedly, most of you have noticed that another patch has been released for this month. On top of the various Warmap stuff and Royal Engineers being released and implemented, two major aspects of company building have been modified. Yes, I am referring to Oversupply and the new Weapons Cache Pool.


Oversupply is gone, I took it behind the shed and shot it dead. Next item.


We have a new pool to replace oversupply, this is called the Weapons Cache pool, and it is exactly what it sounds like, a pool for weapons and upgrades.

It's very simple, upgrades and weapons that are consistently spammed or deemed powerful enough shall draw from this weapons pool along with it's subsequent resources. Once the pool is drained, you can no longer purchase items that draw from that pool.


So, as the numbers are plugged in, you will see a dramatic drop off in some types of strategies that rely heavily on a particular weapon or an upgrade, etc. However, now that we have another category by which to restrict the usage of upgrades, players might very well see price reductions in the cost to employ such weapons. Panzerschrecks may come down in price, as well as thompsons, allowing your companies more flexability while not necessarily increasing the concentration of the weapons that get their price reduced.


Quite simply, this new pool is supposed to be a tax on spam, it's not designed to make companies boring and uniform.


If you have any questions about this new system, I am always on vent. (most days)


Thanks guys,

[PR Lead] Groundfire

Even if he didn't say the word weapons cache in the paragraph, why would he close a topic (weapons cache) after he just started upon a apparently different.

[AmPM]

Umm...good job posting an unrelated thread topic?

lol

[DarkSoldierX]

Whhhaaaaattttt.

Munition price decreases UNRELATED TO A MUNITION PRICE DECREASE THREAD?

Sorry didn't know.

I confused munition with munition, and forgot the huge difference between the spelling of the words price and price.


I am so nub, maybe I will get a dictionary next time.