3 Panthers or 2 Tigers with Blitz doc?

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[3rdCondor]

I'm most likely gonna alternate between the two, but this would probably influence my doctrine selection as well.

Discuss

[EliteGren]

If you have a good hand with the tiger it will pay off more, otherwise use 3 panthers.

[Shabtajus]

3 panthers and t4 Battle Hardened, elite storms and 1 extra bundle

[3rdCondor]

I know that heat round panthers are good, but both tanks are probably good enough on damage and pen. I'm gonna go t4 and just alternate between the two. Tigers are more well-rounded, but having 3 panthers is much more useful overall vs any kind of vehicle-heavy coy. Thanks

[Smokaz]

3 panthers is a really strong build not weak to anything. with blitzkrieg you can counter pershings and snipers two units the panther usually doesnt rape easily. airborne wont penetrate you, fireflies will be rushed by you. But youll need more distracting AT around it vs HVAP, cause hvap is something those panthers just arent good at taking out loads of.

Imo ever since nebel got nerfed you got 100 more fuel as wehr. If nebel was good you could have unskirted panther and a nebel.

If you go bottom t4 with blitzkrieg you got deadly panthers and impregnable inf. I think I will do this for my current blitz.

[chefarzt]

Still a bigger mun sink.

[johnnyaustin]

I have used both and they are useful, but if you end up plying a 2v2 you should have mobile tactics so you can reapir and shoot like if a m10 or hellcat comes. For me i prefer tigers over panthers.

[Spartan_Marine88]

1 Tiger, 1 Panther and an Ostwind.

win

[CrazyWR]

Dual tigers hands down.

[NightRain]

Going for heavy infantry? Then Tigers if you can support your inf with it. Panthers ain't exactly infantry supports but they at least excell at taking out armored targets better than the tigers. HEAT wont exactly uplift your damage much.

Your damage will be 158.125 instead of 137.5. You won't notice the difference that easily at least not until you carry a vet 3 tiger/panther to the battlefield, then you get 189,75 which starts to be noteable when you ALMOST two shoot m10s.

Tigers being 1280 Manpower 1100 fuel 200 munitions (without double repair and smokerounds)

Panthers being 1800 manpower 1350 fuel 270 munitions (With skirts it'll be 120 fuel more)

Other one is 14 pop and the other 16 pop.
Other one is faster and has better armor the other one is slower and has lesser armor but to compensate it has bigger splash.

The other one also carries a higher accuracy at long range than the other and better penetration values overall while the other one has slightly worse anti tank.

Now depending on support. Each unit composition has one to two weaknesses. 1 being the 57mm and 6pdrs. The other being M10s and Hellcats.

1x M10/M18 can kite your tiger and take it out without taking a shot in return or they can outswarm a Tiger if there are 3 of them around. Additionally even a tetrach swarm does a hefty work outta tiger due to slower turret rotation and slow speed.

While Panther can't be kited by any other armored unit but the firefly it has advantage in range. It can be swarmed but it is more difficult due to its better armor and its mobility and turret rotation. While it has lesser health it'll have to go repair sooner.  But similar swarm encounters will happen eventually when your panther is often bellow or close to 50% of health. In a small strategy bring out schrecks and similars out when that happens and watch the tank destroyers swarm themselves to death.

Anti tank gun walls. Yes when ever there is one to two heavy tanks on the field these will happen. They are often built at minium by 2 anti tank guns in a 2v2 and 3 in a 3v3 which is only standard procedure. If anything I do not recommend anyone taking heavy tank builds into higher than 2v2s because of the spammability of those games. It wont penalize 1 player to bring out 3 anti tank guns at the same time and focus on using them. The anti tank gun walls are always a problem to axis players and so far their only moderate counter has been- the mortar. If playing with a Tiger anti tank gun wall is more fatal as it limits your mobility and ability to use your 16 pop unit to its fullest effect. Should you try to snipe infantry you get hit by anti tank guns so you're only going to hide behind shot blockers and wonder what you did wrong. Thats when mortar comes in but note you're now at 20 pop due to Tiger + Mortar. If you play defensively you'd have a 3 pop machinegun in a building and it is all supported by a tiger. Slow combination really and you'd rely on your team mate to do majority of capping and otherwise additional support. Your ability to be fuildy has turned into solid.

With a panther Anti tank gun walls are a pain as well but with your unit being 14 pop instead of 16 you can field slightly more for it. A mortar and something nice on it you got 7 pop to spare. Your panther being the faster unit can zoom around and support more easily and faster than the tiger in all regards.

Therefore it depends on your gamestyle. In my opinnion Tigers lose games more than wins them in a 3v3 environment but in a 2v2 they do fairly better due to pop limits (80 pop from 2 players at max at average 60).

If the goal is heavy infantry then if you lack AT, Panthers, if AI, Tigers.

But presuming elite armored infantry you'd be quite fine in Anti infantry standards so Panther does seem more approving in all genres. It has the long range AT your infantry will require to take out certain obstacles and it is faster to zoom around.

But presuming your elite armored infantry is more generalized and you find yourself fighting more BARs and brens than you really want to and less vehicles I'd say Tiger is your choice as you give lesser range a slight mix of AI/AT to your infantry in return of mobility.

Choose well and wisely.

[hans]

... Thats when mortar comes in but note you're now at 21 pop due to Tiger + Mortar. ...

i count 16 + 4 = 20 ( )

no srsly good explanation night 

[Smokaz]

Still a bigger mun sink.

A good point, which is why I opt for the bottom t4 which makes your manpower investments a lot stronger vs bars etc.

[Hicks58]

Your post is pretty good for the most part Speedy, except this:

Your damage will be 158.125 instead of 137.5. You won't notice the difference that easily at least not until you carry a vet 3 tiger/panther to the battlefield, then you get 189,75 which starts to be noteable when you ALMOST two shoot m10s.

People so quickly forget that damage buffs significantly increase AI performance.

Standard Tiger splash and damage is as follows:

Short range: 0.5 distance at 137.5 damage
Medium range: 2 distance at 48.125 damage
Long range: 5.3 distance at 27.5 damage

Now, if you throw heat rounds into the mix, watch what happens...

Short range: 0.5 distance at 158.125 damage
Medium range: 2 distance at 55.34375 damage
Long range: 5.3 distance at 31.625 damage

Now, look at the medium range damage. Without heat, you'll cripple any Riflemen caught in the blast.

WITH heat rounds, you'll turn any riflemen into chunks which is caught within a 2 unit range of the round going off, and leave anything within 5.3 units at just over 13 health.

Now, just for giggles, I'm going to throw in vet 3 for you.

Short range: 0.5 distance at 189.75 damage
Medium range: 2 distance at 66.4125 damage
Long range: 5.3 distance at 37.95 damage

So yeah, a heat round vet 3 Tiger can gib any US infantry that isn't airborne within a 2 unit distance. So if you roll a hit on a member of a Ranger squad that isn't spread out, chances are 4 of the members are guaranteed to be dead. If it clumps, then lulz.

[TheVolskinator]

Now show me an allied equivilant with AT support that can cloak and move.  

EDIT: I honestly think the Panther is a better tank. Tigers can soak and deal a nice whollop if you catch a blob with its pants down, but since I prefer to kite units (or just fight at long range) and avoid return fire, the Panther is much more appealing. If I do choose to use the Panther, I'll build my company around it including doctrine choices--the bottom T3 for TH (PE) and Panzer Aces for WM, for the added accuracy. With it's range and proper use, the Panther becomes a pain against infantry too (Ive had heartmann bag 23 or more kills per game with his panther, which is pretty good even compared to the Sherman and P4) and can kite anything on treads thats not a FF. Back up a panther with a Pak and some sort of mobile dedicated AI, and you're golden.

[Kaleidoscope]

Tiger is best for defend , more armor and more HP

However,if you prefer invasion , them Panther can do better , fast speed , fast main gun rotation and long range hit (if have sigh)

if you want to use Tiger , prepare with teammate together and be cover .It's might nice .   

[panzerman]

i had triple panther on my TH a before the wipe with teller mine spam, and on APCR rounds and watch pershings cry lol. and just use your pgrens like volks just cap all the dead atg and support weapons as well as get them garrisoned for the +20% accuracy bonus makes for a amazing company. very powerful but needs support from teammates if enemy spams atg

[Demon767]

i had triple panther on my TH a before the wipe with teller mine spam, and on APCR rounds and watch pershings cry lol. and just use your pgrens like volks just cap all the dead atg and support weapons as well as get them garrisoned for the +20% accuracy bonus makes for a amazing company. very powerful but needs support from teammates if enemy spams atg

+1

i like your style

[panzerman]

wow i just re read that i love the word 'and'  lol

[kwiatekkek]

triple panthers !

[TheIcelandicManiac]

1 tiger and 2 panthers is best tbh, having the AT ability of the panther and the AI ability of the Tiger makes it a mean machine if they are on field at the same time.