Goliath

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[RikiRude]

Now I've been holding off on this complaint for a while, because I never wanted to do a rage post, but this last game truly shows that something needs to be done about the goliath.

Being able to spend 90mu and 10fu on a 1 pop unit that can kill anything, and wipe out a full health squad can be annoying, but usually isn't too bad in moderation. But when someone sits there and puts 15+ in their company, then it becomes something that is trouble, and the bottom line is it doesn't really gimp your company. A goliath can damage anything, support weapons, infantry, tanks, structures.


Another thing is goli should take priority over infantry for quad and probably just about any other unit. i couldnt kill a goliath because when id move the quad it would just focus on the grens instead.


http://www.gamefront.com/files/22636873/Goli+SPam.rar

[Shabtajus]

i truly think this unit is fine

[Hicks58]

i truly think this unit is fine

You would.

[GORKHALI]

stop complaining u ally noobs ,finally gork noob found something to stomp ally and u already QQ ,this unit is fine ,..  

u guys got to stomp me for so many years since i joined eir now it's gorks tur ,..

[RikiRude]

also noticed that it only costs 1 pool and it's from inf pool. this hardly makes sense, shouldn't it come from LV or support? I figure LV right?

Also it only costs 1 pool? Flame throwers on engs are 2 pool, and you can do a hell of a lot more damage with a goli than a flame.

[rolcsika0128]

Protip coming: Learn to play before you learn to complain please!

[Hicks58]

Goliaths are the single most cost-efficient weapon in EiRR.

*Flares up the Myst-Signal*

[terrapinsrock]

Rolcsika - I haven't seen you play or even attempted to counter this nor make a suggestion with anything that could counter this, so protip, come with something constructive to the thread or don't comment.

But back to the Goliath, for 90 munis, it can already do 375 damage and with the Terror buffs you can do 412.5 damage which means it can almost halve the health of a Pershing with just a 90 Muni unit. In addition, Pios with the Goliaths are just one pool (on an already cheap platform) when even PGrens with Tellers are 2 pool which means you can afford a ton of Goliaths (With no PaKs its about 22 or so).

I think we need to either hard cap the Goliath if we keep it at the 90 Muni price, or its price and pool needs to be increased (My opinon to around 150-160 Muni and 3 pool).

Just my 2 cents.

[rolcsika0128]

LOL terapin.... f***ing use it if it's soooo good and easy to use. Otherwise you can just shut the heck up. kkthxbye

For Hicks: there is always has to be a unit which is the most cost-eficient... why could not it be this 'has no LoS, goes down to 1 atg / tank shot' unit?

[RikiRude]

i really dont think i need to adhere to the "L2P" argument. I may not be the best player, but I sure as shit know how to play and counter things.

I've played games against players who I can beat 80% of the time or can out micro, and had them make me sweat because they were just goli spamming.

Goli spam turns a noob into a pro pretty much.

[rolcsika0128]

Names and replays Riki, please, or didn't happen!

[Hicks58]

For Hicks: there is always has to be a unit which is the most cost-eficient... why could not it be this 'has no LoS, goes down to 1 atg / tank shot' unit?

No.

Everything should be equally cost-efficient.

The very meaning of cost-efficient is the ability to destroy/otherwise negate it's weight in resources. If a unit has dealt an equal damage to it's resources at the minimum, then it has been cost-efficient, meaning the unit is viable. If a unit is destroying/negating a disproportionately large amount of resources in comparison to it's initial cost, then it is being TOO cost-efficient.

The goliath for example costs 90 MU and 10 FU. For that 90 MU and 10 FU, you can instantly destroy a 380 MP 140 MU (180, if AP rounds) 57mm. Not decrew it, destroy it.

Now lets say you drop it on a single Zook Ranger squad. That's 310 MP 80 MU instantly destroyed or retreated. Again, it is being extremely cost efficient.

That's just looking at single targets, if we were to say having a goliath approach a pair of Bren squads, that's 460 MP 150 MU instantly destroyed or retreated.

The beauty of the goliath is, you don't even have to push the button. Simply approaching a target can cause a retreat (Particularly vet) and subsequently cause resource damage to your opponent - To which you can just go find another target.

Should I also go into how it's ridiculously cost effective when you take down a partially damaged tank with the goliath or just use 2 goliaths to take down a single tank?

[ALLiDOisWIN]

OMFG, it takes fucking micro, they are so weak and die to anything, you need good flanking

[Hicks58]

OMFG, it takes fucking micro, they are so weak and die to anything, you need good flanking

Drop smoke.

Sorry, micro what?

[nikomas]

Don't forget roads...

"Incomming Golia*BOOM*"

[RikiRude]

I just played a game with goli spam, now to be fair, the game didnt really show how amazing goli spam is outside of what we already know, the game was in my favor, but what it DID show me is that goli spam is fucking HILARIOUS!


Tankedit: NO unrelated Pics. This is your only warning

[Hicks58]

If you use it, or it's on your team, it's hilarious.

To be on the receiving end of it when it is in the hands of competent players?

Not worth the 20 minutes.

[rolcsika0128]

You are partly right Hicks. But don't forget the other side of the coin!

When you are trying to determine the cost-efficiency of a unit you not only have to consider its price and possible damage output, but also its survivability! As far as goliath is concerned, if you take its survivabilty into account, it's suddenly not THAT cost-efficient. I'm not trying to say that goliath is a bad unit and not worth its cost, it's just not that "retardedly op" as many people claim.

Btw: This might sound stupid, but Idid not notice that atgs miss more on goliaths if they are in smoke.

[Hicks58]

Yes, the Goliath dies to a wet fart, there is no arguing that point.

However, should you lose a Goliath, you've lost only 90 MU 10 FU. If you are running Goliath spam, you've got another 20 or so in reserve.

Also, Goliath survivability can be drastically increased by use of tactics/abilities (Flanking, surprise attacks, distractions, smoke, etc)

One or two Goliaths is workable. They become a problem when they are used in vast quantities.

A unit being frail comes into cost-efficiency when the unit is of a high price. If the unit is very low in price, being frail barely comes into it due to quantity making up for the weakness.

[rolcsika0128]

True point again, but there is more thing. Think about it globally, I mean company-wise.

If you have like 10+ of them, you will find yourself in a very uncomfortable situation, since you will barely have any munition to grab some atgs, support weapons, snipers, etc..
Let see the goli company I have:
A total amount of 18 goliaths---> since i want to buy repair kits for my tanks I can only afford 1 atg and 2 shrek gren squads... even though I have a KT, it's still not much of an AT force, is it? Meaning a fast, hard hitting mechanized company can easily beat me, if its user is on my skill level.