SE Flammenwerfergruppe

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[chefarzt]

Thank you for submitting this report. You should hear back from the admin team shortly
Sry for choice of words, i meant its delightful to to have you here Tank.
Btw:
Google Arschgesicht.

[PonySlaystation]

Give them smoke grenades?

[Marlboroman]

oh boy the allied fanboi reactions to my suggestion haha note i said heroic/elite armor not heroic/elite armor + heroic crits which means basically they still get sniped easily they still get one shot by tanks the only thing it helps against is small arms and lets be honest at the moment its about as useful as a 4 man pio squad i mean 4 kch arent op and those guys have heroic armor higher health and heroic crits

[Spartan_Marine88]

oh boy the allied fanboi reactions to my suggestion haha

Allied fanboy? Ugly is an allied fanboy?

If anyone has the last word on SE its Ugly.

[Marlboroman]

was talking about ice&co

[Hicks58]

If you think that Flammen Grenadiers are about as useful as a 4 man Pio squad at the moment, then you are seriously deluded.

Heroic armour would essentially turn them into a 4 man KCH squad with a flame thrower, minus the sniper immunity. It's also worth noting that 4 man KCH squads are the single most potent AI squad in EiRR pound for pound, with possibly the exception of dual T3 Thompson Rangers (Allied Grit + extra Thompsons).

Their MU cost at 120 is about par for the course with the amount of AI that they pack, perhaps being too expensive by 10 or 20 MU. Being 280 MP off the bat whilst being at Grenadier stats for platform is a bit iffy though. That's the kind of MP cost I'd expect AFTER sprint was attached to the squad.

AB Armour could definitely be a step in the correct direction though as Ugly said.

As a note though, if they did go the route of a fifth man, it wouldn't be with an MP increase (Or a very minimal one, +10/20 tops) as they are already sitting around the MP value for a 5 man squad of Grenadiers as a platform. As for not doubling up squads in an IHT... Well, the idea of 2 Flamers or a Flamer and a Shreck (Without having to pick one up on the Flammen squad) in an IHT is kind of silly lol.

[Marlboroman]

tbh using IHT's against anyone who are decent at the game is suicide due to the fact that usually when it goes boom 3 squadmembers die and it usually goes boom if a kitten looks at it wrong

[LittleJoe]

TOO EASY!

[nikomas]

Smoke + 1IHT loaded with two flammen squads = gold Better yet, you can use them on their own, once they go down to 1 man remaining you throw them back into IHT's and you can have an extremely low pop flammen IHT.

Their Man cost is a bit iffy, but they're likely the best PE has going for it infantry wise outside of fallschirmjagers.

[Hicks58]

tbh using IHT's against anyone who are decent at the game is suicide due to the fact that usually when it goes boom 3 squadmembers die and it usually goes boom if a kitten looks at it wrong

With a speed of 7.2 and the ability to not lose any speed when moving through cover, you've gotta suck to be losing them constantly. Hell, with that kind of movement you can freely pick when and where you engage with only really the Hellcat having a hope in hell of catching you if you choose to bug out. LV's can try it, but will get slammed if even one of your IHTs has a shreck.

If you doubt what IHT's are capable of, go watch Shab at it. Myst could probably pull some miracles with them these days if he spared some time to play, he's a bugger for his fast movers lol.

[Uglysori]

Smoke + 1IHT loaded with two flammen squads = gold Better yet, you can use them on their own, once they go down to 1 man remaining you throw them back into IHT's and you can have an extremely low pop flammen IHT.

Their Man cost is a bit iffy, but they're likely the best PE has going for it infantry wise outside of fallschirmjagers.

That's not saying much given generally how shitty PE infantry is perceived as being in the current meta and unlike regular FJs they are a T3 unlock and for the most part get no buffs besides Storm Tactics Doctrine tree unless you consider the ability to build road blocks a huge buff to Assault Flammens.  They used to get the free ability to spot mines along with the middle t2 unlock which was fun.  

Hicks, the ability to fit in double flammens or a flammen/shrek was one of the perks of this expensive unlock.  Not sure if I have heard many complaints about double squads in an IHT especially given abundance of handheld AT in the current meta.  You can get by with an assault gren and shrek in an IHT anyway.  

Also Shabs tactic works mostly because of the general overpoweredness of moving repairs in this mod.  Damaged engine is the death of harrassing IHTs and that is so easily negated with moving repairs.  

Unfortunately, this is not a tactic SE companies can employ as effectively.  In fact, since unlike TH, we also can't purchase double shrek its hilarious to watch an single shrek IHT try to kill a Stuart or M8 with moving repairs even with the shrek accuracy bonus from the top T3.  The IHT should easily get crippled and or destroyed before the LV goes down.      

[nikomas]

Yeah, don't get me wrong the IHT is pretty unreliable outside of the TH doctrine, and from own experience I can tell you the only reason TH works is not only because of moving repairs, but because of INFINITE moving repairs, so you pop them as soon as you take damage from anything really. It's not really shabs tactic either, he just copied the way rolc (and I, and most people using TH IHT's) happened to benefit from the same glitch didn't he? Hell, unless I remember wrong I recall mystie running this to way back when.

Still, flammens in IHT's are no joke, specially if combined with smoke. But it ain't going to be much use for tank hunting and once you get engine damage, you might as well ditch the thing.

[nikomas]

Tig, I'd like to see you effectively use what you just described in anything not a 4v4, against decent opponents. I left falls IHT's out of it for a reason, I do believe they're not as effective as you claim them to be. I also believe I've played falls to a much greater extent than you have so you're buggin me a little when you put it like that. I'm also honestly wondering between a flak+verling and infantry to support it, you'd even find pop in a proper game for that to run a pair of clowncars.

And against any decent micro, a single car is not going to take down a tank on it's own, nothing bigger than a Sherman anyway (An M10/Cat if microes well can be kept out of the short range of a shreckcar, and shot down the car before it gets to close if microed properly) so a single one is not really all that effective unless it's a suicide bid to kill something injured.

[ick312]

Anyway, for the sake of being on topic (as I am just picking holes in Niko's post), the Flammen would really benefit from the doctrine unlock Luft has which gives extra health and airborne armour; however, it should be default on them and not a doctrine unlock like it is for Falls. This along with their weapons makes them worth the T3 (compared to falls who are T1, but need a doctrine unlock for the health + armour).

^+1

gentlemen, to be honest: check what you just have stated. IHT + Flammenwerfer + smoke (only regular basis is the mortar HT or the more expensive hummel)
Thats 14 population, 1000 MP, 170 Munition, 80 fuel + a T3 unlock, dedicated to use 1 infantry effciently. And the performance isnt so good that it justifies these prices

I think niko made a good point about the IHT's. INFINITE moving repairs makes them strong. (otherwise the middle t4 of TH would suck)



gentlemen, i am proud on this community: 3 pages discussion and almost no trolling and derailing

[XIIcorps]

That m15 ht is a glass cannon.
Tho its rightfully what a bofors should be like in eir.

And tig 100% misses with shrecks ? What 1 shreck misses and thats your 100%.

In no universe do shrecks miss that often even with received accuracy buffs from vet.
Unless shrecks in cc have less accuracy firing that I'm not aware of.

And why are 88's and falls being brought up were taking about assault flammenwerfers.

[TheIcelandicManiac]

1. That m15 ht is a glass cannon.
Tho its rightfully what a bofors should be like in eir.

2. And tig 100% misses with shrecks ? What 1 shreck misses and thats your 100%.

3. In no universe do shrecks miss that often even with received accuracy buffs from vet.
Unless shrecks in cc have less accuracy firing that I'm not aware of.

4. And why are 88's and falls being brought up were taking about assault flammenwerfers.

2. Zrecks cant hit for shit unless you have a vet 2 unit of anything tbh

3. it helps a shitton tough, granted scatter is the main way Zrecks hit their targets but while firing at moving vehicles any recived acc buff helps alot preventing those pesky homing zrecks.

4. have you never seen a EIR balance thread before?

[Hicks58]

The health buff would be unnecessary. The reason Falls get it is because they have Soldier armour by default, the extra health is to compensate for the loss of that.

[Mysthalin]

IHTs never required moving repairs to be as effective as they are - not even repairs at all. The original person to use IHTs to any effect was mukip (double StG44s unloading behind enemy ATGs and the like, the IHT was only a transport platform, rather than anything else) followed shortly by David who advocated single StG44 groups to be used entirely while remaining inside the IHT. I merely joined up in the spam with David, adding the use of repair kits since I didn't feel it was a large investment and it let me maintain IHTs in the off-case they survive the attack. But fundamentally the repair was not a necessary part of the IHT to be effective. Having Hetzers to take the shots was.

Tig: What you're saying on the chances of ridiculous consequences is technicall correct... if CoH is using fully random distributions. If it's using a Pseudo-Random Distribution for calculations (something we can't really test for) then it literally can not happen in CoH, while silly things like 10 misses in a row still can.

Oooh, the wonders of stats.

[nikomas]

You can always go with the Civ style of adjusted luck, lol

[XIIcorps]

You can always go with the Civ style of adjusted luck, lol

Or the fallout system of S.P.E.C.I.A.L.   LOL



On the topic
Perhaps we could trial flamens with heroic armor or heroic crits