A V R E & Brummbär

[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever

Login with username, password and session length

[Mister Schmidt]

Can confirm it is atrociously easy to get 35+ kills on Sturmpanzer consistently, cannot speak for AVRE but would assume it's similar, perhaps easier due to turret.

I run a Sturmpanzer in my Blitz and with double repairs, this thing just keeps on killing without remorse.

[tank130]

Are these really high kills partially a result of the meta game right now? A large majority of people are spamming mass infantry and the AVRE & Brummbar are awesome infantry killers.

I played a 1v1 with Pony last night and absolutely raped him with 1 ATG, a Bike, a couple of MP44 and a StuH. My Stuh was racking up kills like crazy because he kept fielding mass infantry.

I think the AVRE & Brummbar may need a a little tweak, but I think we also have to be careful and recognize the current meta game is making the numbers look very skewed.

If they are raping all your infantry, maybe stop fielding so much infantry?


Look, I know I am a shitty player, but that is because I have very slow assed reflexes, not because I am stupid. I know what needs to be done, but I am slow as shit reacting to it.

That said, I have been running a terror company lately because everyone knows I ran StuHs. After a few games I realized allies are just spamming the shit out of infantry, so I said fuck that and brought back my StuH's.
StuH's are an awesome counter to the current allied spam - soon I expect balance posts to go up about StuH being OP and needing a nerf.....lol

[TheWindCriesMary]

It's a valid question, but the answer is that stuhs and other significantly more expensive/pop intensive units designed to kill infantry and/or support weapons (tigers, jagd tigers, tiger aces, hummels, even wespes) are not coming anywhere close to consistently (and by players of a wide variety of skill levels) racking up as many kills.

With that being said, it isn't just a matter of kill counts. It's about the game changing aspect of the Sturm's/avre's where they can effectively remove a chunk of the opponent's AT (taking out a pak/atg) for example reliably every 45 seconds or so. Happening occasionaly or only at a certain range this isn't a problem, but we can trace the precise moment Sturms and AVRE's became contributors to victory (or defeat if you're on the other side) to when they got both a range and recharge increase within a small period of time. These were two significant benefits that, in close proximity, seem to have upset the balance of power.

The AVRE/STURM should be a useful and effective unit, but should have a consistent contribution (barring any extremes in player error/luck/skill) with its cost and investment.

[XIIcorps]

Every 45s you are guaranteed a kill of an atg at anyrange.
The AVRE is stronger then its ever been and all the while its gone up 1 pop.

[PonySlaystation]

You are never guaranteed to kill an ATG, sometimes the gun is destroyed, other times it's decrewed, sometimes the crew survives. Assaulting a well supported Anti-Tank gun also means you lose a lot of health. AT guns are best kept behind your units for a reason. ATG sniping usually happens because people tend to keep them unsupported and without scouting at which time the ATG cannot damage the AVRE because it's completely unprepared. It's the same reason why people lose ATG to snipers, RRs and other hit and run units.

[XIIcorps]

In my last 20 games more then half had sturms and AVRE.

Last I checked pony whether an atg is decrewed or destroyed it still has the desired effect.
And im yet to see either unit fail to do this.

Tho im sure others will testify to the contrary.

[tank130]

Played a game today and I was really surprised at how effective the AVRE is now. I would not make much of a change to it, just a little tweak. I would suggest decreasing its range by 5.

I haven't seen the Brummbar, so I have no opinion on that.

[TheWindCriesMary]

In my last 20 games more then half had sturms and AVRE.

Last I checked pony whether an atg is decrewed or destroyed it still has the desired effect.
And im yet to see either unit fail to do this.

Tho im sure others will testify to the contrary.

It's very, very uncommon (requires unlucky rolls) but it does happen from time to time.

[XIIcorps]

It's very, very uncommon (requires unlucky rolls) but it does happen from time to time.

perhaps hicks has rubbed off on me ?
Damn us and our Albion blood.

The range does lessen the amount of punishment they need to take to get off a decent shot.

[Hicks58]

Just a little behind and to the side (Aiming to deliberately miss the weapon itself, you don't want the round to clip with the gun) will guarantee a decrew every shot. If the ATG has taken any prior damage to the tune of about 15%, a direct hit will destroy it.

Non-decrews only tend to happen when you aim at the weapon itself and the heavy cover (Or splash being fucking weird after sourcing on an actual object) saves one of the two guys behind the gun.

Having 45 range, you'll be able to engage the ATG beyond visual range so long as you keep their scouts down and yours up.

But even if you make a direct hit which doesn't kill weapon or crew, what's left of it will die to a passing breeze.

[Korpisolttu]

AVRE's slow but strong, Sturm's mobile but weaker. You can have many AVRE's in your company ALLWAYS (very annoying especially early war), you can have many STURM's aswell but as it's reward unit it's rare to see many Sturms in your company without saying how many survives. In other words replacing lost Sturms is way more harder.

Anyways at least the range needs to be nerfed by 5, some think it's enough to just add 1-2min cooldown, but that would still leave atgs too ineffective against them.

[XIIcorps]

They dont need a double nerf. As wind has stated for eons slight incremental changes to these units are needed.

Take away 5 range
still too cost effective ?
add 10s to cool down
etc etc


I for one do not want to see these units nerfed into oblivion yet again.

[NightRain]

With this change (originally) Myst intended to make these AVRE like units into useful ones. Think it like a expensive artillery piece that has to take hits in order to deliver its payload. However it does it more often instead of sitting for absurd 3 or so minutes on the field doing nothing. Now it is more expensive but more effective.

[Korpisolttu]

They dont need a double nerf. As wind has stated for eons slight incremental changes to these units are needed.

Take away 5 range
still too cost effective ?
add 10s to cool down
etc etc


I for one do not want to see these units nerfed into oblivion yet again.

Yes I'd start with -5 range nerf and after that see if it needs cooldowns nerfs. This adds crucial time for atgs to reverse dodge or shoot possibly +1 time before taking hit. Also infantry actually has chance to see and react to it before they're already dead.

With this change (originally) Myst intended to make these AVRE like units into useful ones. Think it like a expensive artillery piece that has to take hits in order to deliver its payload. However it does it more often instead of sitting for absurd 3 or so minutes on the field doing nothing. Now it is more expensive but more effective.

Yes it takes hits only if it attacks atgs frontally which gets los from some recon. Tho against single atg the taken damage is very minimal usually and if there's no recon for the atg, it survives easily without taking damage at all with its current range.

It doesn't need to be overnerfed, but right now people strongly agree it's OP unit.
edit: I'm speaking a lot about "it", I mean "they", both Avre/Sturm needs same -5 range nerf.

[XIIcorps]

Lets get one thing clear

AVRE/Sturm 45 range

All ATG's 60 range

AVRE/Sturm should take 2-3 hits from an ATG weapon before they even fire.

[Korpisolttu]

Lets get one thing clear

AVRE/Sturm 45 range

All ATG's 60 range

AVRE/Sturm should take 2-3 hits from an ATG weapon before they even fire.

Only if they have los like I already pretty clerly said it.

[XIIcorps]

But man if you dont give LOS to your ATG, thats failing basic L2P

[TheWindCriesMary]

Even the best players would have a great deal of difficulty keeping 50-60 sight for their atgs the majority of the time.

Especially not during a big push, which is the ideal time to have your Sturm tag behind a wave of infantry or a vehicle rush and neutralize an atg in one go.

[GrayWolf]

AVRE can also fire over the obstacles, so even atg cannot fight it. Nerf range and give +30 seconds cooldown. For both Brumbaer and AVRE.

[XIIcorps]

AVRE can also fire over the obstacles, so even atg cannot fight it. Nerf range and give +30 seconds cooldown. For both Brumbaer and AVRE.

They can fire over some obsticals, given certain criterior are met.