R017 - LiveNov 18/2015

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[tank130]

General
- All vehicles have had their acceleration and deceleration reduced by 10%
- All non-scouting vehicles(Not jeep, bike, ketten etc.) have had their sight ranges reduced. Heavy Tanks by 5m, all others by 2.5m

American
- Marines have been added as a non-doctrinal unit for the United States. They have been altered in three ways.
     a.) They have had their bazooka option removed.
     b.) They now use a modified garand rather than the springfield rifle. (2-1.5 base cooldown compared to normal garand)
     c.) They will be dropped to 280 manpower
- Riflemen have been given the bazooka upgrade non-doctrinally for 55 munitions.

Commonwealth
-

Wehrmacht
-

Panzer Elite
-

Map Changes
 - Villers-Bocage has been added back to the map list.

[Hicks58]

Map Changes
 - Villers-Bocage has been added back to the map list.

That alone is worth it.

TankEdit: No need for the redundancy

[aeroblade56]

Yeah see, i knew Hicks had a direct connection influencing lothen. no wonder he begged to have that in

[Hicks58]

Funnily enough, that's the only specific request I've made to any of the coders. Everything else has been off their own backs, micro-managing balance hasn't been my job for a looong time.

Mind you though, Dire wanting the map also helped that along tremendously.

[AlphaTIG]

its funny tho, i only got shit for saying that we needed non doc zooks.. and now look what happened..

[Batgirl]

whos up for a date with batgirl @ villers-bogace @ this weekend  ?

[tank130]

its funny tho, i only got shit for saying that we needed non doc zooks.. and now look what happened..

Funny enough - The Dev team was able to have an intelligent conversation with out a bunch of negativity, or woe is me attitudes.

A decision was made to find a solution to the US not having a suitable secondary infantry option. The decision was made to implement Marines for that option, but removing their AT ability. Just adding zooks to rifles would have been a stupid, irresponsible, knee jerk reaction to a a small portion of the US faction problem and would have resulted in US still being broken.

Small minds only look to the simple band aid solution to the issue at hand. A collective group of mature adults have a rational discussion looking at all the underlying issues. The Mature group will listen to other mature input and compromise where a compromise makes sense. The difference is: the mature group does not make posts like the one quoted above.

If after substantial play testing any axis units require buffs as a result of Zooks; Zooks will be removed as Non Doctrinal

[TheVolskinator]

To be fair, I lobbied (hard) for trying to make Riflemen useful for some purpose other than suicide grenade and sticky runs (their new vet is aimed at those roles) rather than shoehorning nonsensical Marines into the US, but I digress.

I doubt that Bazookas will result in the necessity of massive Axis buffs, since most everyone runs mediums or Panthers and slaps skirts on them. Only the foolhardy, running their tanks without skirts, would truly suffer under the possibility of non-doc zooks.

[tank130]

To be fair, I lobbied (hard) for trying to make Riflemen useful for some purpose other than suicide grenade and sticky runs (their new vet is aimed at those roles) rather than shoehorning nonsensical Marines into the US, but I digress.

It's really too bad I didn't strongly suggest we not change any vet tables until the game design was completed...... oh wait, I did........but I digress.
Are you suggesting other than marines, every single unit in this mod is sensical?

I doubt that Bazookas will result in the necessity of massive Axis buffs, since most everyone runs mediums or Panthers and slaps skirts on them. Only the foolhardy, running their tanks without skirts, would truly suffer under the possibility of non-doc zooks.

You make it sound like we don't actually need the zooks then 
I am also curios as to where in my last post I noted MASSIVE axis buffs? You may be better served addressing balance decisions in a less extreme fashion.

[Dauntless07]

Are you suggesting other than marines, every single unit in this mod is sensical?

Damn, I guess you got me there. Sure, Marines weren't common in Europe, but hey, units like Knight's Cross Holders are pure fantasy.

While I think seeing more effective riflemen would have been interesting, I'm willing to try Marines, more of a combined arms approach than a single unit that does everything. I do think Marines could do with a grenade or something at least though.

[tank130]

While I think seeing more effective riflemen would have been interesting, I'm willing to try Marines, more of a combined arms approach than a single unit that does everything.

That is exactly what we are trying to achieve. Promoting combined arms use and trying to limit the "one unit does all" approach. One of the biggest complaints about US has always been they are one dimensional and boring.

I do think Marines could do with a grenade or something at least though.

I think that would make them too useful on their own and eliminate the need for rifles.

[Hicks58]

Marines are still 300MP in lawnchair.

[Dauntless07]

I think that (grenades) would make them too useful on their own and eliminate the need for rifles.

Why? Rangers get a Grenade, and I don't see people complaining about that. The reason? Rifles pay 30 MU for Grenade, while Rangers pay 35, (I think.) Even elite infantry with Garands are still terrible. (OK, new Garands, so will have to test that, but still.) The LMG is the real workhorse of the squad, and it can't even shoot while the squad is moving, so at most, I'd think Grenades would discourage infantry blob rush attacks because "YOLO super human hitpoints."

[tank130]

Why? Rangers get a Grenade, and I don't see people complaining about that. The reason? Rifles pay 30 MU for Grenade, while Rangers pay 35, (I think.) Even elite infantry with Garands are still terrible. (OK, new Garands, so will have to test that, but still.) The LMG is the real workhorse of the squad, and it can't even shoot while the squad is moving, so at most, I'd think Grenades would discourage infantry blob rush attacks because "YOLO super human hitpoints."

Marines are not intended to replace Rangers, so I don't think that is an accurate comparison. If you want grenades, use combined arms by including rifles.
Marines are not meant to replace rifles. They are meant to be an added variety to the US faction.

[chefarzt]

Marines, what are they good for?
From what i read here its basicly Lmg Grens?
Less squishy then rifles?

[Tachibana]

I do think Marines could do with a grenade or something at least though.

Everybody slow down. Where in the notes is it stated grenades have been removed from marines? Has anyone actually checked the launcher to see what marines have and do not have available to them, or is everyone just making assumptions?

If grenades were meant to be removed, I missed the memo. As it stands, Marines have the LMG and a grenade option, however, they have absolutely zero ability to fight any form of armour. For that, you still need rifles.

[Dauntless07]

Everybody slow down. Where in the notes is it stated grenades have been removed from marines? Has anyone actually checked the launcher to see what marines have and do not have available to them, or is everyone just making assumptions?

My mistake, I was at work and couldn't check launcher, but yeah, I shouldn't have assumed.

I'm not sure what you're so defensive about Tank. My point was not that Marines need grenades to replace Rifles, but that they need an upgrade besides the LMG for their own safety and flexibility, (not to mention the LMG is way more powerful than a grenade to begin with.) There are more units in this game that can equip grenades than I can count, they are more or less universal generic upgrades. Like Tachibana said; Rifles very much have a place in this game regardless of whether Marines get grenades.

[tank130]

I actually don't really give a flying fuck anymore to be honest. I am shutting it all down at the end of December, so enjoy it while you can

[Dauntless07]

Wow, for real? What finally killed EIR:R? I thought things were still progressing with the update and all.

[chefarzt]

Dat anger management! Low five Tank, weeeeeeeeee...............