Patch R021

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[Tachibana]

Bren carrier is still 240 mp 30 fuel, 3 pop
whereas the PE Inf HT is 100 mp 0 fuel, 2 pop

Skaffa has spoken, nerf IHT.

[skaffa]

Since there is no longer any regard for vcoh design you guys should look into the option of making Grens (and PGs) 5 man squads (not just +1 man but balance the squad accordingly ofc).

Because ask yourself, when is the last time you've seen a vet 2 Grenadier? Or a Vet 3? I know Ive seen plenty of vetted riflemans or tommies, even volks, but Grens? In my years of playing EIR Ive hardly ever had a vet 2 Gren or even seen one.

Easily dealt with by all the improved LVs, snipers, tanks sniping them, aswell as the (new) allied infantry.
While their dmg output is weaker, having to face tougher Marines as well as LVs with more HP.

Even that 4 man Elite Grenadier reward unit was bad. Yes it might have had good stats, but ingame it was easily dealt with, never a real problem.

If you're gonna test 45m range Tigers/Pershings, change tank sight and mobility, add in Marines, Chaffees and GMC to standard roster as well as buffing LVs you should also definitely see what happens if you get rid of 4 man teams.

[Shabtajus]

Agreed with 4 man squad poitn. At least grens get medkits and poor pgrens they are just uber shit now. It does not matter they cost less but they just suck now.

[GrayWolf]

if germans move from 4 to 5 it would actually balance many things like heavy tanks anihilating whole squds or snipers

[Hicks58]

The biggest problem with Grenadiers isn't so much they are 4 man, but rather they tend to be so damned effective even at 1 man when upgraded. 1 Man Shrecks or LMG's can still provide a large degree of field presence, and many players will keep them around in the face of danger due to that.

Inevitably, this leads to a lot of dead Grenadier squads.

Even if the squads became 5 man and were adjusted, you'd still see the same problem of people risking it on the one man and then losing it as the weapon you're keeping around is usually more than worth the risk.

Conversely, Riflemen/Tommies/Volks become nothing more than cap tools for the most part when down to 1 man, and *usually* get a safe retreat even from that.

[skaffa]

5 man would help with the capping as well. 1 man Gren capping will now be less MP wasted.

5 man will make sure that that LMG or Schreck stays on field longer with tank sniping and regular sniping.

Ive tested MP44 scoped on Volks and on Grens, in countless of games.
Even tho Volks are lower hp and have weaker rifle they seemed to stay on field longer and get more kills compared to the Gren.

Not sure who decides wether or not to try it out, but if it was up to me Id definitely give it a shot.

[TheVolskinator]

Here is the problem with this: The le M.G.42 and PzShreck are already more effective than their allied counterparts, and this is while they're married to 4-man squads that can be sniped or vehicle'd off the field relatively easily. If we now apply these slot items to squads with equal staying power (against explosives, snipers, and vehicles) to Tommies and Marines, and just one man short of Riflemen, then that gives the German infantry a MASSIVE advantage, because those deadly slot items will end up hanging around even longer. Using anything but upgraded Rangers, AB, or Commandos would be folly and not very cost efficient--I'd just defer to using a mass screen of vanilla infantry and let vehicles do all the killing.

Unless we nerfed the Shreck, LMG, and re balanced the Grenadier, PGren, Tank Buster, Assault Grenadiers, FSJ, and Stormtroopers, this change would be almost impossible to make happen. Not to mention all of the Allied infantry would need to be adjusted to take this change into account.

As you seem so hellbent on making this happen, I will test adjusted 5-man squads and observe the results. But I am telling you now, this is a terrible idea and moves to strengthen, radically and utterly, the German position of strength in EiR combat.

[tank130]

I think this idea would swing the pendulum too far towards mirror balance. Currently the basic design of infantry is Axis have stronger infantry, smaller squads; Allied have weaker infantry, larger squads - ignoring elite infantry of course.

Too increase the size of Axis infantry would require a decrease in their strength to maintain balance. The problem is, once you do that you are basically becoming mirrored.

In regards to PzGrens: If you keep trying to play PE like you play Wher, your going to QQ about PzGrens being shit.
PE is supposed to be a unique faction with a unique play style. We will continue to make PE less like Wher and more unique and defined.
PE will become a faction that fits certain payers with certain play styles.

The previous Dev team butchered PE to basically become another Wher company because of the vocal minority that wants a simple point and click game. We are changing that.

[aeroblade56]

YEAH, Besides shab also agreed with skaffa thats reason enough not to listen

[skaffa]

YEAH, Besides shab also agreed with skaffa thats reason enough not to listen

That would be like saying not to listen to you and Volks cause you two only play allies heyheyheya.

[GrayWolf]

PE is supposed to be a unique faction with a unique play style. We will continue to make PE less like Wher and more unique and defined.
PE will become a faction that fits certain payers with certain play styles.

It fits nobody in the current meta. Unless you can counter the handheld AT with your infantry oh wait...

If I have to count on my enemies to bring companies that does not have LVs and elite infantry in it, then ok, I've got no questions about the current state of PE.  You cannot just make a faction dependable on vehicles only, it has to have at least one mainline infantry that can take some pounding and give some pounding in return. Without infantry all that enemies have to do is to use their elite infantry to counter the whole PE.

The only way to make PE infantry working right now is sprint and g43s, but hey, you've just got weaker version of Bren Tommies, that have suppression ability that does not even suppress really. PE is only good for vet hunting and that's not the way it should be played lol. Unless you want to make a faction that does not rely on veterancy, but suicade rushes, but I think it kind of does not suit the mod.

[Shabtajus]

YEAH, Besides shab also agreed with skaffa thats reason enough not to listen

L2read i agreed on pgrens. While allies, brits, and wehr has option get 5 man squads that leaves PE only one faction which does not have it