Off-maps suggestion

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[31stPzGren]

This idea has merit in a realistic mod, but not in EiR.

[Igawa]

How come? The way i'm looking at it it's mainly a different type of ability. It creates a clear difference between on-map and off-map artillery, but doesn't eliminate ALL precision strike capability. All other off-map strikes (those called from units or airstrikes/V1) will still be unrealistically accurate and quick. I think that the biggest loss to this idea in terms of tactics would be the ability to run a quick unit behind the enemy lines and call a precisions strike down on the enemy in the blink of an eye.

IMO, this could and should be more difficult to accomplish, and also encourages more front-line vet combat because people will be less afraid of bringing their vet troops into enemy LOS if the threat of point-and-click rape artillery was no longer there.

Edit: One example would be assaulting a MG-fortified location. Playing as axis, if your units get suppressed, then you might as well write them off because even if you time your attack perfectly after they used their most recent on-map howie barrage, then they can just pull another off-map precision strike and insta-pwn the attack.

[AmPM]

Have an artillery barrage that covers a huge area with penalties towards damage to units in green cover, buildings and a slight decrease in yellow.

Want to hold a position even through an arty barrage? Build some sandbags, trenches, or use natural cover and buildings to keep your men safe.

[Malevolence]

Good idea if I do say so myself!

[Unkn0wn]

So an arty shell hits you on the head but you survive because you're behind a stone wall? What kind of artillery shell would that be?

[Malevolence]

Not necessarily exactly like that, but something to a similar effect

[Igawa]

Maybe an effect like.....a direct hit on troops in green cover would be equivalent to a un-upgun sherman/p4/stug hit. It would destroy the cover, probably kill a guy (maybe two) and do some damage, but not TOTAL RAPE.

For troops out of cover, add a multiplier effect to simulate the increased damage (AOE is an issue)

There's ways to do it, just finding the right balance is the trick

[AmPM]

So an arty shell hits you on the head but you survive because you're behind a stone wall? What kind of artillery shell would that be?

Perhaps the same kinds of rounds we load into our 7.5cm cannons on the P4's that bounce off Shermans? Or made of the same material as our bullets where you can hit a man 10 times and he keeps coming?

Gameplay > Realism, and it would add a much different feel to offmaps.

[Caarnus]

I suggest that we gie rid of off map arty all together. ever since it has been instituted I have lost almost all interest in playing, and I know im not the only one that feels this way.

[Baine]

I suggest that we gie rid of off map arty all together. ever since it has been instituted I have lost almost all interest in playing, and I know im not the only one that feels this way.

Axis players so far are already used to it, thanks to FOO

[AmPM]

You mean that on map ability used by a LT thats almost exactly the same as the Officers Mortar Barrage but on a more expensive and fragile unit? That one?

[Killer344]

Buildings grant an accuracy reduction of 85-90% against offmap artillery rounds.

The three exceptions to the buildings=safe rule are...Calliopes, Nebelwerfers, and Stukas. And Firestorm.

v1s, are better.

[Igawa]

Caarnus that's exactly the point of this idea...I know that off-maps frustrated me to no end as well, but this lets off-maps still exist, but with a brand new role and brand new strategies and tactics.

FOO and Officer arty aren't in discussion right now because that's another big can of worms and questions. Personally I don't really consider them off-map artillery, to be honest, because you still have a unit on the field which can die and then you lose the ability to use it. Versus an ability which you can always use in any situation in any place you have LOS

[Baine]

You mean that on map ability used by a LT thats almost exactly the same as the Officers Mortar Barrage but on a more expensive and fragile unit? That one?

Just saying it is one of those offmaps (well for me it's offmap) that have been used alot. And seriously, Officer mortar is only against infantry and light vehicles, whereas FOO is overkill. And Officer is a doctrine unit, and will probably only be seen once in a game with a Defensive player.

LTs on the other hand are a lot more common. And so is FOO with them most of the time. That's why most axis players are already careful with their units.

That's what i meant to say.

Btw - the LT is more expensive? He is cheaper in manpower and only 10 mun more expensive...

[Malevolence]

Is that with or without his arty barrage?

[Baine]

Is that with or without his arty barrage?

Officer - 180 mp 170 mun
LT- 140 mp 40 mun   - FOO 140 mun

[Scyn]

IMO, this could and should be more difficult to accomplish, and also encourages more front-line vet combat because people will be less afraid of bringing their vet troops into enemy LOS if the threat of point-and-click rape artillery was no longer there.

In my opinion if players are afraid to bring their vet on the field.. that's already warranting an instant loss. If they rather choose between losing the game and losing vet(Which is going to die eventually anyway) then let that be their decision. I certainly have no intention of supporting suggestions stating that it would be a fix, and then also note that less people would be sissies if(...).

Edit: One example would be assaulting a MG-fortified location. Playing as axis, if your units get suppressed, then you might as well write them off because even if you time your attack perfectly after they used their most recent on-map howie barrage, then they can just pull another off-map precision strike and insta-pwn the attack.

This can hardly be taken into consideration since axis troops running into a .30cal HMG have a huge chance to retreat before being suppressed. And frankly I'm seeing both sides doing exactly this.

[chefarzt]

Its just funny how the introduction of precision strike changed some allied players view on offmap spam.

[Malevolence]

Offmap has always either been "lol" or annoying, depending on context.

[Igawa]

You mean lol if it misses you and annoying if it hits, right?

BTW Scyn, that example is referring to an ATTACK, when you're actively trying to break into an enemy position, not little skirmishes along the front. You might have a tank or two, and mortars/arty of your own as support. It's less of a problem for allies because if you use rangers/ab you get fireup, and Axis offmap arty is a joke, but for axis infantry it used to be game over if you got suppressed (and brits/PE)