Fall of France..continues?

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[Spartan_Marine88]

sure thing spartan, but as I said, we'll do the rgds for the ones we have first, then maybe we can try to make ones we dont' have

Well, at least i have an easy one for you then. The Canadian Grizzly, its just a Sherman except the treads were different and engine was slighty modified

Oh and Canadians did use Harley Motor cycles, allies in bikes? maybe? please?

[salan2]

absolutely, but they'll look like axis bikes for a bit

[salan]

I did a bit more work on this today, its coming along nicely, although slowly with myself working overnights for 6 days in a row, and sleeping most of my home time and spending the rest with kids and a quick sit down for World of tanks for a game or two...  enough excuses..

what I have decided is the following.  Emplacements will be handled differently in the remake.

All factions capable of building defensive emplacements will have all their soldiers able to build empty FREE emplacements.  Emplacements will take time to build, instead of the current instant build ones that come with guns in them.  Any units that are stationary and unlocked as an emplacement unit (bofors/ 25pndr, 105 howitzer / 88 / flakveirling etc) will build from a building list in the emplacement itself (meaning emplacements will have ownership and not be nuetral (should be doable))  The gun / crew will continue to have the minimal build times all other units in FOF have, so as to not lose resources trying to put one up.

also empty emplacements will be able to house mobile units from the game.  Ie MGs / mortars / at guns / artillery will be able to garison and use emplacements gaining their bonus's in protection.

emplacements will be balanced through their damage tables and health better then they currently are, and will have limits on how many can be built per player at a time as per infantry / tank ratio's in the game currently.

I'll work on this feature after finishing implimenting the current two factions listed.

[salan]

work in progress:

The Volksturm.
Volksturm were the end war city fighters in FOF.  They had defensive positions, infiltration routes and stealth as their means of close in fighting techniques.  Emplacements, hidden tanks and engine damaged tanks that were cycled out of the front previously are what they have to defend with.

Infantry:
Volksgrenadiers
Volksgrenadiers w stickies
Volksgrenadiers w faust (fausts will have xtra range w no critical)
Spotter squad
Command squad

Company1:  Volksturm Assault
tier1: Volksturm - mp40s
tier2: Volksturm - mp3008
tier3: Volksturm - stg45
tier4: Volksturm - fg42

Company2: SturmPioneers
tier1: SturmPioneer
tier2: SturmPioneer Boyz AT
tier3: SturmPioneer Flamethrower
tier4: SturmPioneer Panzershrek

Company3: Stormtroopers
Tier1: Stormtroopers
tier2: Stormtroopers - g43
tier3: stormtroopers - stg44
tier4: Stormtroopers - double shrek

Support
88
flakveirling
pak36
pak 36 staliengranat (spelling, meh)

company1:  Weapon crew Support
tier1: Hmg42 / 81mm Mortar
tier2: LMG 32 / Lmg 42 support squad
tier3: Heavy mortar bunker
tier4: Heavy mortar Halftrack

Company2: Artillery support (if mm's are wrong will fix later)
tier1: 180mm Nebelwerfer
tier2: 220mm nebelwerfer
tier3: Artillery Emplacement
tier4: 105 howitzer

Company3: emplacements
Tier1: 88 bunker
tier2: Flakveirling emplacement
tier3: 88 emplacement
tier4: Pantherturm

Company4: Supplies
tier1: Anti infantry supply drop
tier2: Anti tank supply drop
tier3: off map arty unlock
tier4: 88 Airburst unlock

Armor
Scout car
20mm puma
50mm Puma
stug 3  (ambush)

Company1: Ambush tanks
Tier1:  Stug IV
tier2: hetzer
Tier3: Jagdpanzer

Company2: Infantry support
Tier1: P4 F1 IS
Tier2: Stuh 42
Tier3: Sturm Tiger

Company3: damaged tanks cycled from front
Tier1: Panzer 4 Ausf <>
Tier2: Panther Ausf <>
Tier3: Tiger



all infantry is infiltration-able from friendly territory, or walk on.
company 3 tanks have half teh movement rate of normal tanks, and slightly less health, will be priced accordingly.
company 1 tanks all have specialized hetzer ambush, and can be infiltrated as per current FOF.

[salan]

with the accuracies in the game being stronger I think its time to look at the bonus's for being in cover and garrisoned..  I will be researching how to change this, can't be that hard, and making the IN COVER more beneficial while leaving the accuracies as is.

will make it more interesting imo

[Ununoctium]

you realize this benefits smaller squads?
lower odds of the "idiot out of cover" scenario.

Only solution i can see is make all tier squads same size to be fair.

[salan]

ya, that is a good point!

mm

[AmPM]

Simple, make squads 2 groups of 4 or 5.

So you still buy it as a squad, but get 2 units. One of which carries the LMG if the unit is upgraded with 1, each one having one if the unit has 2.

Real squad sizes, real squad tactics.

[salan]

Ya i was thinking of that... reworking it so they had 1 squad with both a firesupport section and an assault section hmm

[AmPM]

Well its how it worked historically speaking.

Grenadier squads had 1 LMG with 1 team, and the other team was rifles. Panzergrens had 2 LMGs per squad, one in each element.

Americans kept the actual LMG seperate, but had a BAR in each squad.

Would allow you to keep the accuracy and not worry about huge squads trying to find cover.

[salan]

how many people per squad usually?

[salan]

Also going to rework the armor types to be more universal and useful.

ie:

infantry Armor = no bonus
Soldier Armor = 25% less damage
Airborne Armor = 25% less accuracy
Elite Armor = 25% less accuracy and 25% less damage
Heroic Armor = 25% less accuracy and 25% less damage, crit change, 25% suppression resistant

for ALL weapon types, ug .. this will take a while ... unless I can figure out the macro hmm...!

[AmPM]

8-10 usually. Panzergrenadiers were usually 8 men per squad, Grenadiers and American Rifles usually 10.

Soviets is a whole other level.

Do they have models available that could be used for 1941-1942? Panzer 3's, Matilda, Crusader tanks, etc?

[Unkn0wn]

Could split it up in fireteams like in Brothers in Arms eh

[AmPM]

Yea, I beat you to that like, 5 posts ago =p

[salan]

they are being created, but you can fake it until they are finished.  Supposably there is stug 3's and panzer 3's near completion ...

ya.. could use ABILITIES to build the unit and have it build two units instead of 1 kinda how you do infiltrations or airborne drops.. hmmm  then just make the units smaller each..

I'm not aiming for true historical correctness, leave that to the Fortress Europe guys, they know what they are doing.  I just want to make a game that is fun in the gameplay

[salan]

Damn you ampm, I'll have to remake my US trees with this idea.. hmmm

[AmPM]

If you responded on IM this would be much simpler.

You can make a game semi-realistic and still have it fun to play. Splitting squads into teams is realistic, easier to handle in game, and more fun than guys that can't figure out how to use a wall.

I would love to do a complete remake of CoH to have more realistic penetration rates and damage, just lack the RGD knowhow. Just have to make sure that if a tank is destroyed the crew bails and has a chance of escape. Well, if it were persistent.

[MittinsKittens]

You can make a game semi-realistic and still have it fun to play. Splitting squads into teams is realistic, easier to handle in game, and more fun than guys that can't figure out how to use a wall.

Sorry to rain on your parade a little, but Can I say a little something.
Lets say we split the LMG into "teams", like a LMG on its own and a squad of 3...
You do know that this is really bad for the person with the LMG since it will be focus fired to fuck because its easier to target..

[AmPM]

You should read the thread, we are talking about squads of 8-10 men split into 2 teams, so the normal squad sizes of 4-5 once on the field. 1 or both of these teams will have an LMG.

Also Salan, handheld AT weapons were commonly a separate team within the platoon.

So lets take a look at a Panzergrenadier Platoon.

2-3 Panzergrenadier Squads
1 Platoon HQ possibly with PFaust
0-1 Panzerschrek Team