PE assault gernades has got to go!

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[AmPM]

Could work, should implement a similar change for Fire Up as well, so they can't just run at your HMG or squads in cover.

[Mgallun74]

In normal COH are assualt nades and incedinary assault avail to the units that use them?   

i know Fireup is part of the normal units

[AmPM]

Assault Nades are in fact available.

IA was created by EIR.

In CoH do AB get BAR rifles to chew you up with gunfire? No.

Saying does this or that unit get this or that in vCoH means nothing. If Assault, which is for the sole purpose of removing HMGs and support weapons makes your men die before they can throw a grenade, what good is it. It would only be fair to add a similar penalty to Fire Up.

[lionel23]

Fire-up does make the unit more vulnerable to HMGs, due to them not being suppressed and thus they take more damage.

Also keep in mind that Fire-up for rangers is on a 9 pool unit, as opposed to a 3 pool PE squad that has assault nades.  Elite units are limited by their extremely high pool host and for them, if they have SMGs, 180 MU PER ranger if its fitted to deal with infantry, more if you add grenades.  To me that's balanced in regards to their fireup.

[Mister Schmidt]

Fireup is not balanced, anyone who tries to argue that is is balanced as it is is just wrong, I'm sorry, but you're just wrong.

[AmPM]

Fire-up does make the unit more vulnerable to HMGs, due to them not being suppressed and thus they take more damage.

Also keep in mind that Fire-up for rangers is on a 9 pool unit, as opposed to a 3 pool PE squad that has assault nades.  Elite units are limited by their extremely high pool host and for them, if they have SMGs, 180 MU PER ranger if its fitted to deal with infantry, more if you add grenades.  To me that's balanced in regards to their fireup.

You failed to read my posts.

IA should ONLY be on Assault Grens, which are fairly expensive, and cost more pool, and Flamer Assault Grens which are the same.

AW should ONLY be on AB Infantry.

Doing that would leave the abilities intact, but prevent mass spamming through either AB high cost and pool value or PE Assault units costing 95mu base + higher pool. Shit, 1 Assault Gren with IA is a 145mu unit with low health and no way to heal itself. Let it throw them at one squad, shoot back with 2 more.

[Mister Schmidt]

Flammen Grens are actually 115 muni

[Mgallun74]

well, after fireup you have a cool down period where your dudes are slow, and also have less effective combact effectiveness.  As with what lionel said, when you do fireup you take more damage too.. 

So in the above 3 things that deal with fireup, how does it not have a cost as well?  what you want them to do when they have fireup, after it wastes they just fall and die? lol..


dont get me started on the unit i hate most in this game, the Klingon Birds of prey that just walk around where ever and just pop up and say hit and kill shit... ya, they have disadvantages as well.. all buffs have disadvantages, but these inced nades dont, cheap ass units with cheap ass weapons that can take out 2 or 3 high price AB squads with peyton manning passes making my AB act like reggie wayne lol.

[AmPM]

You aren't reading my posts are you Mgallun....

95mu for Assault Gren + 50mu for IA = 145mu 4 man unit with low health.

115mu for Flame Gren + 50mu for IA = 165mu for a 4 man unit with low health.

Limiting it to those 2 units stops the spam, keeps the ability, and requires minimal effort.

AW Limited to AB Infantry only, prevents spamming as well, they already have Fire Up so the suppression break isnt as big a deal, and it's limited to an expensive high pool unit.

Thats the easy fix.

[Mgallun74]

You aren't reading my posts are you Mgallun....

95mu for Assault Gren + 50mu for IA = 145mu 4 man unit with low health.

115mu for Flame Gren + 50mu for IA = 165mu for a 4 man unit with low health.

Limiting it to those 2 units stops the spam, keeps the ability, and requires minimal effort.

AW Limited to AB Infantry only, prevents spamming as well, they already have Fire Up so the suppression break isnt as big a deal, and it's limited to an expensive high pool unit.

Thats the easy fix.

thats fine, i did read your post, i said it earlier i said it was a good idea.. my last post was more or less about people saying there is no drawback to using fireup.. 

and yes, still bitching about the manningesk passes the grens throw those nades, put them on assault Grens is fine, higher mun is fine, but what is their pool cost? 

[lionel23]

You failed to read my posts.

IA should ONLY be on Assault Grens, which are fairly expensive, and cost more pool, and Flamer Assault Grens which are the same.

AW should ONLY be on AB Infantry.

Doing that would leave the abilities intact, but prevent mass spamming through either AB high cost and pool value or PE Assault units costing 95mu base + higher pool. Shit, 1 Assault Gren with IA is a 145mu unit with low health and no way to heal itself. Let it throw them at one squad, shoot back with 2 more.

Never disagreed with you, actually I'm totally in favor of that as that would be the most logical course of action. I was speaking and referring to the Fireup haters.

[AmPM]

Ok then, didn't seem clear to me.

Yea, Fire Up is fine if you leave Assault as it is.

But if Assault gets changed to have penalties then so would Fire Up.

[lionel23]

But fire-up does have penalities, which include taking more damage from MGs due to lack of suppression and the exhaustion which significantly gimps the squad's reload/cooldown rate.

But yeah, overall and sticking with this thread's discussion, lets move IA to the assault infantry at a higher pool cost and not let them have it on the low pool infantry, same should be done with ASW for airborne only.

[AmPM]

Yea, cause Assault losses the stuff for suppression too when used. So about the same, but one is free.

[Groundfire]

Yea, cause Assault losses the stuff for suppression too when used. So about the same, but one is free.

One also doesnt chuck grenades like footballs either.

[EliteGren]

...and that's why its free.

[Computer991]

If Inc. Assault nades gets nerfed i demand fireup gets nerfed >: o

[Demon767]

Brian. take it from me man. its pretty bad

[Mysthalin]

I dislike AmPms suggestion quite severely.
Rather than just limiting spam - it will outright remove the entire ability from the game, since nobody will buy it. That is, until somebody dishes out the massive 150 munitions required for his assault grenadier with IA and pisses someone off with it yet again.

Incendiary Assault is fine as far as spam is concerned. Volks can spam assault, grens can spam assault - why shouldn't PE be able to do it with their regular panzergrens? What ISN'T fine, however - is the massive suppression values the grenades have. If we only changed them to 1/3rd of what they are now (I.e - 3 nades to suppress a squad, 9 nades to pin) : I'm pretty sure we could have a well balanced upgrade that is useful to the one using it, but not unbeatable to the one being assaulted.

Let's also not forget that this entire argument is, in part, sparked by the inelasticity of the metagame. The allies have been using massive ammounts of infantry(particularly elite infantry) lately, so the axis have finally come back with an answer that's super effective at fighting blobbed infantry(assault on both PE and WM). Before they did that - they complained about elite infantry blobs just the same way the allies are complaining about assault blobs. Once the allies switch over to a light/vehicle or tank orientated company to counter the assault nades - we'll see the axis starting to complain about T17s, M8s, M10s etc. yet again. Then they'll switch their P4s out for Panthers, and the circle wil continue on and on.

[Mgallun74]

I dislike AmPms suggestion quite severely.
Rather than just limiting spam - it will outright remove the entire ability from the game, since nobody will buy it. That is, until somebody dishes out the massive 150 munitions required for his assault grenadier with IA and pisses someone off with it yet again.

Incendiary Assault is fine as far as spam is concerned. Volks can spam assault, grens can spam assault - why shouldn't PE be able to do it with their regular panzergrens? What ISN'T fine, however - is the massive suppression values the grenades have. If we only changed them to 1/3rd of what they are now (I.e - 3 nades to suppress a squad, 9 nades to pin) : I'm pretty sure we could have a well balanced upgrade that is useful to the one using it, but not unbeatable to the one being assaulted.

Let's also not forget that this entire argument is, in part, sparked by the inelasticity of the metagame. The allies have been using massive ammounts of infantry(particularly elite infantry) lately, so the axis have finally come back with an answer that's super effective at fighting blobbed infantry(assault on both PE and WM). Before they did that - they complained about elite infantry blobs just the same way the allies are complaining about assault blobs. Once the allies switch over to a light/vehicle or tank orientated company to counter the assault nades - we'll see the axis starting to complain about T17s, M8s, M10s etc. yet again. Then they'll switch their P4s out for Panthers, and the circle wil continue on and on.

keep adding shit like this, and AW to game you will continue to see this be a exclusive mod to only the people who really like it.  Played with a new player last night and he was kinda like WTF is that when panda just started blobing his grens and incendiaring everything, he knew the guy was new but still went balls to wall and knock him out quick..   sometimes when you know someone is new you should take it easy on them.. and having a broken advantage like this doesnt help.