State of Balance

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[pqumsieh]

Oh and regarding the StuH, we will look at its Omar effectiveness after the change and go from there. I wanted to avoid messing with its damage output until we tested the patch.

[Tymathee]

Oh and regarding the StuH, we will look at its Omar effectiveness after the change and go from there. I wanted to avoid messing with its damage output until we tested the patch.

who's Omar?

[hans]

who's Omar?

a god?

[pqumsieh]

Phone auto corrected for me. Combat*

[Dnicee]

bye bye storms. it was nice knowing you... Take care!

The ones who are complaining are the ones who never playes with them tbh...

You have any idea how fucked you are if one rifle squad and engi flamethrower squad run into you?

if you get pinned?

if you get uncloaked by a tank?

I dont know, but dual shreck storms is probably the unit with most threats except snipers tbh.

But obv you seem to listen to them who complain the most?

also stormtroopers have never been an issue until now, people have never complained before.

[Smokaz]

No elite armor means that the t4 is weaker for storms with mp44 and bundle nades or just plain medikit. Why nerf these options?

[Tymathee]

...incredible. It's an ambush unit. The same issues that storms have against AI options so do grenadiers, are you saying they're an issue as well?

The stormtrooper thread was several pages long, obviously it was an issue, and multiple people complained about it over and over again to the point where the balance team felt it was needed for them to bring it up and discuss it and the people on the balance team voted to make the change and it was agreed upon by the dev team, quite a democratic process.

Btw, saying people that complain are those who dont use them isn't entirely correct, i saw some players make posts for changes that i have seen actually use them and i think I've seen PQ test the strength of that T4 with storms, so he had first had experiernce with playing that particular build.

[AmPM]

If its an ambush unit give it an ambush bonus.

[Dnicee]

Are you still on the balance team tym?

Ofc the thread was several pages long, only cause it was overwhelmed by allied fanboys and players that

A) wanted a change only because they love allies.

B) mostly play as allies and never plays with storms themselfs.

[Tymathee]

If its an ambush unit give it an ambush bonus.

you mean the bonuses that it's a unit that can run around cloaked with the most power AT, close range AI and best AI grenade along with a portable med kit?

Are you still on the balance team tym?

Ofc the thread was several pages long, only cause it was overwhelmed by allied fanboys and players that

A) wanted a change only because they love allies.

B) mostly play as allies and never plays with storms themselfs.

no but i know how it's run and i really doubt PQ changed the way he does thing.

there were several things brought up that both sides complained about that the team felt like needed no change.

lastly, no it wasn't just fanbois, there were axis players like I said who chimed in and felt it was too good of a strategy.

[PonySlaystation]

The stormtrooper thread was 99% mysthalin QQ.

[Dnicee]

Just read the stormtrooper thread again...

lol tym, it was also several pages because it got derailed and 2 pages are about nebels and such.

Also yes mysthalin stands for lots of the posts in that thread.

btw, tank also has hes opinion "2x shrecks broken no matter what" and that explains alot why were seeing where this balance is headed.

I'd like to see you post a replay where you play against a decent team as blitz and proving that 2x shrecks are broken.

like when you proved how awesome the tiger was... remember?

[Dnicee]

honestly tym you feel like a distraction much of the time. whatever lenient allied fanboy HQ is sending you out, is sending you out just to confuzzle and hold up the conversation

what he said...

[Mysthalin]

Not a very good comparison. The RRs are superior in other areas, just because they do less damage does not necessarily make them worse. RRs have much higher accuracy for example.

Stormtroopers have been the same for 4 years, and now they're suddenly super overpowered? And you're the only one except for super allied fanboys that claims this? You really seem to have some nemesis complex with these panzerschrecks and want them nerfed to uselessness. I can't help but to claim bias when you're known to favor allied light vehicles, which is what the stormtroopers are known to be a hard counter for, more than any other vehicle.

The truth is that Elite Armor makes Stormtrooper panzerschrecks a lot more effective since it boosts their hit and run strategy.

1. Wrong. RRs have the same accuracy as storms, but enjoy a better scatter rate. Putting some reasonable cover in front of your tank is all you need to completely negate RRs as an efficient combat weapon. To give the same kind of accuracy disadvantage to storms - you need to disallow the storms from getting closer to you than long range, forever. That means keeping a screen of efficient detector units at a range of 20 from your tank, from all sides, forever. Slowing down your tank, and putting the screener unit at risks that would normally be completely negated.

2. Stormtroopers have been complained about for the past 4 years, endlessly. They are the only thing in the game (bar the ability Lightning War) to have stayed exactly the same from the days when we had Shermans passively permanently out-repairing paks, Airborne with 50% more health and damage and ATGs that could one-shot StuGs and Ostwinds. And even the Stormtroopers were a very, very fearsome unit - without any doctrinal buffs making them better at direct combat. Learn your history before you call bullshit.

3. No, all I need to do with light vehicles against a heavy storm build is to simply never, ever engage them. I have no qualms with back-capping and putting my pathetic storm-using opponent into a frothing rage as I do so. The issues arise when my allies are completely unable to use armour - period, because they didn't have the audacity to use the most overpowered T2 in the game to back-cap the opponent with M8s.

4. So the storms are 20% more likely to not lose a man after they insta-gibbed that tank you had no chance to reasonably defend. Oh dear, that T4 is so totally a gamechanger. The truth of the matter is that any situation in which a regular infantry armour double-shrek storm duo is put to flight/dies - an elite armour stormtrooper duo will see the exact same fate. The armour is a nice, slight bonus for the double-shreks - but it is far from the godlike armour of Odin people seem to assume it is.

We are trying other options first before we remove double panzer shrieks. What we are trying to do with the upcoming changes is increase the risk vs reward for using them.

Having been on the BT long enough, I know that this translates to "we don't really want to do this and we're just doing this in the hopes it'll shut you up by some mere fluke".

Regarding you point on pop-combat effectiveness Myst, the option to increase the squads pop by 1 is still on tr table. It's a bit of a tricky issue, things aren't set in stone though so if this doesn't work then we will try other options.

Yeah? Cool, then they'll only be twice as popcap-efficient as the next best thing, instead of 2.4 times. Can we see an appropriate rise to 315 mu, so they're only 40% more efficient in muni than the next best thing, rather than the current 50%?

[Dnicee]

no no and no... Ive been here aswell for a few years and storms have not been an issue until now..

as you all can see by now mysthalin is really up in pqs ass about this.

you have allways been a allied lightv fanboy and suggest you should crawl back from whatever dark place you came from.

You and tym should really start some kinda allied fanboy club tbh!

[Tymathee]

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=10450.0

Stormtroopers with dual shreks have always been amazingly good, why did the price get decreased from 150 each to 125 each?

They're already insanely good and it got a price decrease? 

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=9524.0

I am inclined to agree, but I dont know if outright nerfing the unit would be correct. Reinstating their vcoh weakness (supression resistance) however would go a long way into making them harder to use. Right now any noob can use storms because they just cloak and run around the corner without being supressed. Just look at the wehr unit leaderboards, it looks like this:

Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper
...

http://forums.europeinruins.com/index.php?topic=23269.0

300 manpower 300 munition (+ other upgrades if one wants them) 5 pop on field. Big munition dump high risk reward but is ultimately powerful in the reward department.

So I purpose this change:

Allow Stormtroopers only buy 1 Schreck only. Maybe allow 2nd through doctrine, but vanilla Stormtroopers 1 Schreck upgrade only. It reduces the double Storms alpha striking a unit but still allows Stormtroopers to ambush vehicles.

[Mysthalin]

no no and no... Ive been here aswell for a few years and storms have not been an issue until now..

as you all can see by now mysthalin is really up in pqs ass about this.

you have allways been a allied lightv fanboy and suggest you should crawl back from whatever dark place you came from.

You and tym should really start some kinda allied fanboy club tbh!

You spew so much shit I'm afraid I might drown under the outright river of crap, Dnicee. It would at least be funny if we knew you weren't serious, but the fact you are just makes me weep for humanity.

[RoyalHants]

Tank edit incoming

[Hicks58]

You know, I've not seen Dnicee do anything besides attack Mysthalin.

No evidence to show why Stormtroopers are supposedly fine as is. Just attacks on his character.

The only thing Mysthalin has done in response is constantly put down his evidence as to why dual shreck stormtroopers are broken.

I'm happy playing Allies or Axis, I've used Stormtroopers myself. I agree that they are the single most cost-efficient AT piece you can field.

[Smokaz]

A single squad I can take out with a MW tank or a churchill croc, flanking bars or whatever in a blink. It's when they have blitzkrieg ability available and in pairs that they _can_ dominate.

@Dim Tym (like dim sum just crappier) Quoting posts about the previous blitz version discussing this one btw?

You all think PQ keep us in good hands, but he's saying that he wants to flat nerf everything related to the stormtrooper because of double shreks.. the mp44/bundle nade heavy storm companies need this kind of buff to stay viable.

What about looking at a pop increase for double shrek stormtrooper? Or removing sprint from the blitzkrieg ability and reworking it into something else?